When to justify the...
 
Notifications
Clear all

When to justify the speculative element

10 Posts
8 Users
10 Reactions
734 Views
babooher
(@babooher)
Posts: 226
Silver Member
Topic starter
 

Piece of advice 1: Put your speculative element front and center.

Piece of advice 2: Make sure your speculative story necessitates the speculative element.

Question: Does it matter how soon the story demonstrates the necessity of the speculative element? I have a story where the first few pages have speculative elements, but I don't think it is apparent that the speculative elements have to be there. They do, but that isn't clear until about page 5 or so.

2012 Q4: R
2016 Q3: SHM
2019 Q2: HM, Q3: HM
2020 Q2: HM, Q4: SHM
2021 Q1: HM, Q2: SF, Q3: SHM, Q4: SHM
2022 Q1: SHM, Q2 RWC, Q4 RWC
2023 Q1: RWC Q2: SHM Q3:Nope Q4: WIP

 
Posted : October 9, 2022 6:44 pm
David Hankins
(@lost_bard)
Posts: 448
Gold Star Member
 
Posted by: @babooher

Piece of advice 1: Put your speculative element front and center.

Piece of advice 2: Make sure your speculative story necessitates the speculative element.

Question: Does it matter how soon the story demonstrates the necessity of the speculative element? I have a story where the first few pages have speculative elements, but I don't think it is apparent that the speculative elements have to be there. They do, but that isn't clear until about page 5 or so.

I would say that as long as you have the speculative element up front, the why doesn’t matter immediately so long as it becomes clear at some point throughout. The entire point of the advice for ‘speculative up front’ is so that Kary doesn’t pass on your story for it failing to meet the requirements of this speculative contest. Dave Farland recommended that you have all of your key elements (genre cue, character in a setting with a problem, crossing the threshold) in the first five pages, so I think you should be good.

Death and the Taxman, my WotF V39 winning story is now a novel! (Click Here >).
Death and the Dragon launches on Kickstarter August 27th. (Click Here >)
Subscribe to The Lost Bard's Letter at www.davidhankins.com and receive an exclusive novelette!

New Releases:
"The Missing Music in Milo Piper's Head" in Third Flatiron's Offshoots: Humanity Twigged
"To Catch a Foo Fighter" in DreamForge Magazine
"Milo Piper's Breakout Single that Ended the Rat War" in LTUE's Troubadours and Space Princesses anthology
"The Rise and Fall of Frankie's Patisserie" in Murderbugs anthology
"Felix and the Flamingo" in Escape Pod
"The Devil's Foot Locker" in Amazing Stories

 
Posted : October 11, 2022 2:44 am
Dustin Adams
(@tj_knight)
Posts: 1421
Platinum Plus Moderator
 

I'm happy to have a look at the actual pages if you want to discuss more via e-mails. I admit I don't fully understand the question. We discussed the idea of spec up front, like if the element matters, here: https://writersofthefuture.com/forum/writing-craft-talent-technique/get-your-spec-up-front/

In that case I threw in an element as setting - not as plot - just to get it in early.

Are you asking if you have it early as plot, at what point will it matter that it matters to the plot?

I think - it doesn't matter timing-wise, as long as it's visible early.

The spec element is not only essential for this contest, but also provides a hook. Is it cool? Is it sexy? Is it intriguing? Tell me more!

So if you have it in there and the judge keeps reading, then they get to the meat of the element later on, sounds to me like the hooks are set then reinforced.

Career: 1x Win -- 2x NW-F -- 2x S-F -- 9x S-HM -- 11x HM -- 7x R
Like me: facebook/AuthorTJKnight

 
Posted : October 12, 2022 1:04 am
babooher
(@babooher)
Posts: 226
Silver Member
Topic starter
 

I think you guys answered the question. Thank you.

2012 Q4: R
2016 Q3: SHM
2019 Q2: HM, Q3: HM
2020 Q2: HM, Q4: SHM
2021 Q1: HM, Q2: SF, Q3: SHM, Q4: SHM
2022 Q1: SHM, Q2 RWC, Q4 RWC
2023 Q1: RWC Q2: SHM Q3:Nope Q4: WIP

 
Posted : October 13, 2022 3:02 am
Gene Louviere
(@emlouviere)
Posts: 38
Bronze Star Member
 

Can the speculative element be stated in the title and not be mentioned until 5 or 6 pages in? 

 
Posted : September 25, 2023 7:50 am
(@morgan-broadhead)
Posts: 467
Gold Star Member
 

Posted by: @emlouviere

Can the speculative element be stated in the title and not be mentioned until 5 or 6 pages in? 

Can it...? Of course! You can do anything you like with your story!

Will that slight mention be enough to get you past a cursory read by the judges...? <shrugs shoulders>

Your safest bet though is to make the speculative element integral to the story. That element should permeate the story, either in the surroundings or the character interactions or the dialogue.

 

"You can either sit here and write, or you can sit here and do nothing. But you can’t sit here and do anything else."
— Neil Gaiman, Masterclass

Drop me a line at https://morganbroadhead.com
SFx1
HMx5
R/RWCx5

 
Posted : September 26, 2023 8:39 am
(@reigheena)
Posts: 110
Bronze Star Member
 

Posted by: @emlouviere

Can the speculative element be stated in the title and not be mentioned until 5 or 6 pages in? 

Given that a title could be interpreted figuratively instead of literally, and 5-6 pages is 1,000 - 1,500 words, which can range from the 50%  to the 10% mark of the story, I'd say the odds aren't great. But it's worth giving it a try. 

Still, take a look at why it takes you that long for you to establish we're not on Earth. Is it a portal fantasy? Can you get us to the fantasy world faster? Short stories don't have time for long setups like novels do. 

 

v 29 : - HM - - | v 30 : - - - - | v 31 : - - - HM | v 32 : - HM - HM | v 33 : R HM R SHM | v 34 : SHM SHM HM R | v 35 : HM R R R | v 36 : - R R R | v 37 : - - - HM | v 38 : - - - HM | v 39 : HM - - R | v 40: - HM - SHM | v 41: R
My published works

 
Posted : September 26, 2023 9:17 am
Prate Gabble
(@kent)
Posts: 113
Silver Member
 

Posted by: @emlouviere

Can the speculative element be stated in the title and not be mentioned until 5 or 6 pages in? 

If you are writing short form genre fiction, the speculative nature of the story absolutely must be conveyed within the first thirteen lines of copy. Please note that conveying the speculative nature of the story is not necessarily conveying the element that is instrumental to the story, but it helps.

That said, conveying the speculative nature of the story is easy. Descriptions and mentions of any portion of milieu can instantly define the speculative nature of a story: place, time, culture, aliens, fantastic creatures, technology, magic, modes of dress, transportation, building styles, etc., that indicate that the story takes place somewhere other than our world. Define for the reader differentness, the dialog can. In first person close narrative, the way a person thinks can indicate the speculative nature of a story.

But we are talking about a speculative element that is instrumental to the story. All I can say is that I don't know of any genre fiction stories that are structured in the way that you propose. If the story is intended for the contest, I will advise you to rework your opening.

Whether you take my advice or not, know that I'm rooting for you. Complete the piece, put it out there, and wait for your result. And while waiting, plunge into that next piece.

Have fun

 

F x 3

 
Posted : September 26, 2023 11:38 am
James (Ease)
(@ease)
Posts: 519
Gold Star Member
 

Posted by: @emlouviere

Can the speculative element be stated in the title and not be mentioned until 5 or 6 pages in? 

I always aimed for the first 450 words. For my winner, it's in my title (vaguely), my pre-story epigraph (this is a risky play, in my opinion. I'm not recommending using an epigraph), and then the seventh word of my actual story.

Anecdotally, get it as far up front and center as you physically can. The only reason it was the seventh word (and not earlier) was because I had to introduce the MC first. The setting came in on word ten.

 

VOL 40 2nd Quarter: Third Place ("Ashes to Ashes, Blood to Carbonfiber")
Past submissions: R - HM - HM - HM - HM - HM - SHM - SHM
www.jd-writes.com
Kindle Vella - Ashes to Ashes, Earth to Kaybee

 
Posted : September 26, 2023 4:13 pm
Gene Louviere
(@emlouviere)
Posts: 38
Bronze Star Member
 

Such excellent insight and advice from all of you. You've confirmed the nagging doubt that's been troubling me about the opening. So now I'm reworking it to introduce the critical element much sooner.  The revised story has the MC, setting, time, and introduction of a problem in the first paragraph and the fantastic element in the second.  It reads much better.

 Thank you one and all for your generous assistance. I appreciate it greatly.

 
Posted : September 27, 2023 12:10 pm
Reigheena, James (Ease), storysinger and 2 people reacted
Share: