Discussion: Q1 Volume 39

Posted by: @elainemidcoh

Hi all! I don't post much (at all?),but am a devoted lurker who has learned much from this forum and am most appreciative of the helpful tips

I have a style question for you. If writing a story in third person, which do you think is a better way of conveying the main character's (MC) thoughts, keeping third person or going to italics for the first person POV? For example, suppose MC has just insulted a friend ("Joe, you're blah, blah, blah"). Which do you think works better:

MC watched as Joe stalked out, slamming the door behind him. Why oh why did he say that? Joe's no blah blah blah - Joe was his best friend.

OR

MC watched as Joe stalked out, slamming the door behind him. Why oh why did I say that? Joe's no blah blah blah - he's my best friend. 

I have used both styles, typically keeping mostly in third person, with the occasional switch to italics first person for impact. But I recently wrote a story which heavily used italics first person for the MC's thoughts. I liked it, but am curious what forum folks might think: Good to use italics first person occasionally for impact or okay to use throughout the story or pick third person/first person and don't mix?  Of course, the right answer is whatever works, but I am still curious as to your opinions!!

Thanks!! 

Elaine Midcoh

PS: I don't know how to do the signature thing so here's what mine would say: Some R's, a few HM's, one SHM, one Finalist (published finalist, V. 37: "The Battle of Donasi")

 

Welcome to the Forum, Elaine!

Glad you’re here! I hope you’ll officially introduce yourself in the folder New Users: Introduce Yourselves. We’ll get a better picture of you there, and officially welcome you as well. ?

As to your question on how to code 3P protagonist’s thoughts in your writing, here’s my advice, which is not my advice, it’s my mentor’s advice. Once upon a time, I italicized all thoughts as you described. Dean Wesley Smith told me, ‘Moon, if you’re writing deep inside your character’s head, there’s no need to italicize their thoughts—we already know they’re thinking. Get so deep you don’t need to italicize.’ It was good advice and served me well.

And yes, people do it both ways. But I have noted quite often when writers italicize thought, they need to, because they’re not in 3P close, or limited, or what Dean called 3P intimate. They’re writing externally in a more omniscient style, and have to use italics for coding. Okay, reader, I know we’ve been spending a lot of time outside, but now we’re going inside the protagonist’s noggin. ?

Posted by: @elainemidcoh

PS: I don't know how to do the signature thing so here's what mine would say: Some R's, a few HM's, one SHM, one Finalist (published finalist, V. 37: "The Battle of Donasi")

I forgot to mention congratulations on your published finalist!

Could someone please walk Elaine through the procedure to set up a signature. Thanks! ?

Go to profile.

Go to account. 

Scroll down to signature and click the window to the right. Enter your stats.

Congratulations on the published finalist. That will look good in your sig.

Posted by: @wulfmoon

As to your question on how to code 3P protagonist’s thoughts in your writing, here’s my advice, which is not my advice, it’s my mentor’s advice. Once upon a time, I italicized all thoughts as you described. Dean Wesley Smith told me, ‘Moon, if you’re writing deep inside your character’s head, there’s no need to italicize their thoughts—we already know they’re thinking. Get so deep you don’t need to italicize.’ It was good advice and served me well.

And yes, people do it both ways. But I have noted quite often when writers italicize thought, they need to, because they’re not in 3P close, or limited, or what Dean called 3P intimate. They’re writing externally in a more omniscient style, and have to use italics for coding. Okay, reader, I know we’ve been spending a lot of time outside, but now we’re going inside the protagonist’s noggin. ?

 

Thanks Wolf!! I like Dean's term "3P intimate" (third person intimate)- the intimate thoughts are what I aim for when I'm doing the first person italics. I think first person is more "intimate" than third person. I'll probably end up still doing a bit of a mix, but yours and Dean's view will certainly have me thinking: make the writing so good that you achieve 3P intimate. Definitely something to strive for... Thanks again. 

Elaine Midcoh    

Posted by: @elainemidcoh

PS: I don't know how to do the signature thing so here's what mine would say: Some R's, a few HM's, one SHM, one Finalist (published finalist, V. 37: "The Battle of Donasi")

Congratulations on the PF! 😀

To add to the signature, go to the top of the page, mouse over "My Profile", click "Account", and from that page, you can edit all the details of your general visible account, including your signature. It's super simple once you find the right page!

And I enjoyed The Battle of Donasi! We're having a Vol 37 book-club here, so I'll get to read through it again once we catch up to it in the volume, but my very quick January notes mention that it reminded me of a good Star Trek episode.

Posted by: @doctorjest

Congratulations on the PF! 😀

And I enjoyed The Battle of Donasi! We're having a Vol 37 book-club here, so I'll get to read through it again once we catch up to it in the volume, but my very quick January notes mention that it reminded me of a good Star Trek episode.

Thank you!! I love Star Trek - you couldn't have said anything nicer to me!! What a great idea to have a V. 37 book club (or any WotF volume book club). 

Posted by: @doctorjest

And I enjoyed The Battle of Donasi! We're having a Vol 37 book-club here, so I'll get to read through it again once we catch up to it in the volume, but my very quick January notes mention that it reminded me of a good Star Trek episode.

I'll second that, Elaine! 'The Battle of Donasi', with Linae, I believe, had some great imagery. A very easy story to read and enjoy.

Nice.   

Posted by: @scott_m_sands

Posted by: @doctorjest

And I enjoyed The Battle of Donasi! We're having a Vol 37 book-club here, so I'll get to read through it again once we catch up to it in the volume, but my very quick January notes mention that it reminded me of a good Star Trek episode.

I'll second that, Elaine! 'The Battle of Donasi', with Linae, I believe, had some great imagery. A very easy story to read and enjoy.

Nice.   

Thanks Scott - most appreciated!! It's wonderful when readers who AREN'T related to you say they like your stories!! Thanks again!

Patiently waiting with a smile. Using the time to keep writing on other stories, including my novel Not Like Us.

The count is now up to 90 rejections from magazines. Statistics show their acceptance rates are on the order of 0.5% to 4%, so my statistics seem to match average so far. Would it be too much to ask for ONE acceptance? (Feeling a bit like Tevya.)

  @ehonour

Would it be too much to ask for ONE acceptance? (Feeling a bit like Tevya.)

Have you had one of the more advanced forumites (a winner perhaps, or at least a Finalist) critique your work before submitting? If not, I highly recommend it.

Posted by: @dragonchef

  @ehonour

Would it be too much to ask for ONE acceptance? (Feeling a bit like Tevya.)

Have you had one of the more advanced forumites (a winner perhaps, or at least a Finalist) critique your work before submitting? If not, I highly recommend it.

I saw an offer for that recently from one of the members. Excellent idea; I'll use that for Q3. A Forumite would be a good choice for a WotF sub.

Here, I was mostly talking about the submissions to magazines. I have both an online group and a f2f group who help critique those stories. Some of those members are well published, one with 18 books and over 100,000 sales to his credit.

Thanks!

@ehonour ? 

Enjoyed watching the awards ceremony live on our big TV. I especially enjoyed the introduction and tribute to David Farland. I just finished a polished draft of a story aimed for Farland's Troubadours and Space Princesses at LTUE and I have an idea for a story with same characters for the Baen award. At some point I'll get started on my Q3 story. Meanwhile I imagine I'll need to go out for supplies for our blanket fort. My projection for Q1 results is the first Thursday in May. Anyone need anything?  

Posted by: @ehonour

The count is now up to 90 rejections from magazines.

Tevya: 

My first (and second) pro-rates acceptances came in 2021, in which I also received over 200 rejections. I can't offer more than that experience to encourage you to seek MORE rejections! 

Posted by: @angelslayah

Tevya: 

My first (and second) pro-rates acceptances came in 2021, in which I also received over 200 rejections. I can't offer more than that experience to encourage you to seek MORE rejections! 

 

Oh, goodie. Seeking more rejections. Now, THERE's a goal!

Thanks for the encouragement.

@ehonour

I've lost count of how many rejections I've received.  I do know that when I pick up a piece that has been rejected and read through it with an open mind I can see holes in the store.  If it is a story I still like, then I will fix some of the holes I know of and submit it again (rinse and repeat).  Last year one of those fix and submit stories earned me an HM here.  

I celebrated my 100th rejection last week! Woot woot!

Getting my fort ready, packing it with lattes and cookies. I’ll be typing away on a new story while waiting for results.

@craydimensional Sounds good. 

I'm working on finishing my first horror novel, "Danse des Morts".  I hope to have a full rough draft by end of June.  My writing 'helpers' for focus are a few big cups of coffee (stronger the better) and music (louder the better).  BTW: I find that Rob Zombie, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, etc. songs are great for horror writing.

Keep safe and keep writing...

I suppose finalists may be called as early as this week, but my guess is it will be more like a couple of weeks from now with the rest getting emails the first week of May. I received unexpected praise from my second research (evolutionary ecologist model gets published in Science and Nature) advisor on my Q1 story so fingers crossed it gets better than an R. Really, I didn't expect he'd read it. Anyway, hunkering down to do some fresh writing and gathering strength to tackle a revision.

Posted by: @physa

I suppose finalists may be called as early as this week,

Now that the gala is over every call is perused with utmost interest. I answered a spam call from Cal. this morning.

@storysinger I know the feeling. I pick up a restricted phone call a couple of days ago from a scammer.

@storysinger my first Illustrator finalist happened in 2020 when I was homeschooling all four kids and I didn’t get Joni’s call or see the voicemail for 2 weeks. I was horrified and afraid I would never win after that! 

now I answer all the robocalls and refinance offers year round just in case it’s Joni ?? I haven’t missed any more of her calls!

@craydimensional 

Typically, Joni’s calls come from “UNKNOWN” or “NUMBER BLOCKED”. Spam calls typically do not. And she leaves voice mails! 

Posted by: @rschibler

And she leaves voice mails! 

Yep! I kept the one she left me as a kind of souvenir.  

@rschibler 

Very comforting to know she leaves voicemails. Spammers never do. It's not too bad right now, but I went through a stage of getting at least 2-3 spam calls a day, mostly from unknown numbers. Painful.

Most of the publications I submit to tend to respond by email, but I also wonder if some of those might be calling. So if I do get a voicemail from Joni, I'll answer every single call that comes my way (though I'll do that for the next couple of weeks, anyway).

Here's to the wonders of voicemail! 

Got a little too excited by an unknown 213 area code call today (Los Angeles). I picked up... a recording, in Chinese! ?

Posted by: @rschibler

Typically, Joni’s calls come from “UNKNOWN” or “NUMBER BLOCKED”.

That's good to know Rebecca, but I still can't resist a cali-call.

I am rather hoping all the folks at Author Services and WotF get some serious downtime after the Gala. I suspect we won't hear anything on Q1 until next week after they all recover.