Discussion: Q1 Volume 42

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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The Dark is another venue, as is Grimdark magazine, though if memory serves me right, their word count limit is pretty low (3k? maybe 4k? but not higher I am sure, which is why I've never sent them anything as I am sadly, too wordy)

 

Just looked up Grimdark and their word count is "unpublished stories at a strict maximum of four thousand (4,000) words."  They also pay .05-ish US (aud .07)

I'll keep them on my radar for some of my previous stories.  The Dark too.

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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Frankly, given how gruesome and awful most things 13 year old boys are into (I have teenage boys) the rule should be, would the 13 year old show it to their parent freely or hide it because they're afraid the parent would ban it. 😉

Lol, don't I know. Kids love most what's worst for them.

Posted by: @toddjones

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My understanding is that WotF is PG (possibly PG-13, but in the US that is pushing the definition with some content I find R). If you wouldn't read it to a 13 year-old, then it probably is too much. 

I read that too, but it's sorta arbitrary, right? I mean, Indiana Jones was marketed as a kids' franchise here. If melting faces and removing beating hearts from living victims are the benchmark, I'm perfectly safe, but I somehow feel that that level of violence would be construed as excessive here...

Anyway, I removed the sex and toned down the violence, but thematically it's still nighttime and if I let the sun come up, the story is pretty much gone. Guess I'll be going for broke

Posted by: @marius

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If melting faces and removing beating hearts from living victims are the benchmark, I'm perfectly safe. 

haha.  If I would to have read that in a story, it would be far more gross in my mind than when I saw that in the movie. It didn't even phase me in the movie.

Posted by: @toddjones

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My understanding is that WotF is PG (possibly PG-13, but in the US that is pushing the definition with some content I find R). If you wouldn't read it to a 13 year-old, then it probably is too much.

The story I'd call back to in WotF would be The Enfield Report, in vol. 37 I think. That one was extremely dark, thematically complex and surprising, and the "bright" element that's in it is almost entirely in the reflection of the main character's nature--the story's actual events are dark from beginning to end. You might read it to a 13-year-old, but you'd be having a conversation after that one.

Some of it comes down to style. I've read a story that dealt with the rape of a young teen, but did so by focusing entirely on the build-up to the event--what you got in place of it was a drastic change in the character's emotions, as they started out hoping and dreaming, imagining an idealized summer beach romance, and then you saw their spirit get crushed and broken, even though that detail wasn't on the page either, simply implied by the way the story concluded, with soft, gentle tones and unsettling sensory hits. It was a devastating read--skilful, and unpleasantly memorable, but wholly PG-13 on the page. It wouldn't fit WotF's tone, for sure, but it would technically fit that PG-13 guideline. And it was a great example of how you can sometimes deliver more impact by leaving some elements off the page.

PG-13 stories can deal with sex, suicide, murder, violence, racism, war, abuse, disease, death, you name it, all depending on how it's handled. You could make Charlotte's Web into X-rated nightmare fuel if you felt inclined to write it that way, after all. Which is not to say that all stories written to a PG-13 standard would still suit WotF, just like the one I alluded to--there is certainly a line. But it's maybe a more forgiving line than we sometimes think. I almost always see at least one story in each WotF volume where I think "well, I certainly wouldn't have submitted that one", either for reasons like this, or other, more intangible ones. Story quality just has a way of winning out, over and above any adherence to a specific set of implied rules.

So, I'm in for Q1V42

good luck everyone, still plenty of time, you can do it!  

Damn you, Gideon! You're making me look bad! (Also, Gideon was the villain in one of my SHMs before. Coincidence? Maybe--but who's to say?)

I've been chipping away at my story here and there over the long Thanksgiving weekend, trying to pin it down, discovering the problems with the ideas and arc I have planned, and reworking and revising elements as needed. But I'm getting close, and hoping to have some kind of first draft dusted off today.

I think I just finished my story. I had other options, but I never felt as strong as I do about this one. Just waiting for a few crits and then I'm ready to start on my next one.

Posted by: @doctorjest

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Damn you, Gideon! You're making me look bad! (Also, Gideon was the villain in one of my SHMs before. Coincidence? Maybe--but who's to say?)

 

I've actually noticed Gideon is often a villain - The Mandalorian he's a dark-saber wielding empire pawn intent on hurting baby Yoda, Elden Ring he's ruthless and just using you, Once Upon a Time he's prophesized to kill Emma Swan, but there's more - Dr Who, Charmed, and lets not forget Gideon the Ninth who may be the main character but is not exactly an angel. More like a necromancer.

There are so many villains named Gideon there's even a wiki dedicated to it:

https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Gideon

Posted by: @doctorjest

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Damn you, Gideon! You're making me look bad!

lol. I don't think so. With your level of participation here and pubs in Podcastle, Abyss and Apex and HFQ per the sig, its definitely you making the rest of us look bad!

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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I've actually noticed Gideon is often a villain - The Mandalorian he's a dark-saber wielding empire pawn intent on hurting baby Yoda, Elden Ring he's ruthless and just using you, Once Upon a Time he's prophesized to kill Emma Swan, but there's more - Dr Who, Charmed, and lets not forget Gideon the Ninth who may be the main character but is not exactly an angel. More like a necromancer.

There are so many villains named Gideon there's even a wiki dedicated to it:

https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Gideon

That's interesting! What springs to mind for me with Gideon would be Mr. Gideon from The Crow, or--a little bit more off-kilter--Armoured Gideon from 2000 AD. He's not a villain, really, but not so much a hero either, more a kind of odd, force-of-nature construct...

lol. I don't think so. With your level of participation here and pubs in Podcastle, Abyss and Apex and HFQ per the sig, its definitely you making the rest of us look bad!

Well, participation is how I get to be sociable without having to talk to flesh-and-blood people. 😀 As for the pubs, I am stubborn, which helps! Ashwright was published twice, for example, at On Spec first and then PodCastle later, but it was rejected thirty times first. If you have faith in a story, stick to it. A lot of stories just need to find the right editor, the one who really clicks with what you were going for.

Posted by: @doctorjest

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That's interesting! What springs to mind for me with Gideon would be Mr. Gideon from The Crow, or--a little bit more off-kilter--Armoured Gideon from 2000 AD. He's not a villain, really, but not so much a hero either, more a kind of odd, force-of-nature construct...

 

Oh cool! More villains to add to my list

Posted by: @doctorjest

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Well, participation is how I get to be sociable without having to talk to flesh-and-blood people. 😀 As for the pubs, I am stubborn, which helps! Ashwright was published twice, for example, at On Spec first and then PodCastle later, but it was rejected thirty times first. If you have faith in a story, stick to it. A lot of stories just need to find the right editor, the one who really clicks with what you were going for.

As an introvert, I 100% relate to this!

And I too try to be stubborn, at least with the submissions - my goal each year is to reach 100 rejections. I did much better (but still didn't reach it) with that goal last year, but I'm having a heavy push towards the end of the year right now. Why? Because my first submission to WOTF was a straight R. I was sad. And then that same story, unedited, got me finalist in the NESFA short story competition. A much smaller competition, sure, but it did make me believe that *someone* liked it, even if it had got an R elsewhere. So I decided I would no longer take "one opinion" of a story, even if it was a valued one.

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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Oh cool! More villains to add to my list

So you can take over the world, right?

I'm revising an R from last year that I've had some feedback on. I've been correcting some white room syndrome and fixing a few inconsistencies. Also removed several confusing sections that didn't end up working as well as I'd hoped, so I decided to just remove them. Hoping to improve on the R. 

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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And I too try to be stubborn, at least with the submissions - my goal each year is to reach 100 rejections. I did much better (but still didn't reach it) with that goal last year, but I'm having a heavy push towards the end of the year right now. Why? Because my first submission to WOTF was a straight R. I was sad. And then that same story, unedited, got me finalist in the NESFA short story competition. A much smaller competition, sure, but it did make me believe that *someone* liked it, even if it had got an R elsewhere. So I decided I would no longer take "one opinion" of a story, even if it was a valued one.

Well, stubbornness sure seems to pay off for you--I wish I had half your acceptance rate! I've submitted over 300 times in the last 3 years, and I've managed exactly 11 acceptances from those, including reprint sales. But yeah, one rejection doesn't tell you a story isn't good, just that it isn't a fit for that market, editor, or publication. Sometimes you actually get that feedback--I've received a number of rejections from editors telling me that they really enjoyed my story (once, actually, telling me it was their favourite story that they'd read all month), but that they just didn't feel it was a fit for their magazine. However, most of the time you just get a form "nope", and you're left to figure out what to make of it for yourself.

My brain is a jumble of ideas and I can't focus on my Q1 story. First scene I reworked to be more concise with a try/fail at the end. Second scene I have notes for what will happen, along with second try/fail, but haven't started yet. Third scene is the climax and I have it drafted, but needs major clean-up. Short denouement and shooting for done mid-December complete.

I’m in for QTR 1 v42. Crossing my fingers that this one places. One tiny little HM. That’s all I ask.

@toddjones you can do this.

Switched to another new story for Q1 entry that is done, but needs edits. This should give me time to make my original Q1 a Q2 entry.

Got to keep working on the reading out loud editing method. It has been great for identifying awkward sentences.

Heyo! Okay, so I'm fairly new to the forum and double-so for this thread. I was trying to get a feel for what this Q1V42 thread was focused around. It seems to have a shotgun's focus aimed at story, craft, and this quarter's contest submissions? Is that the gist? lol I apologize if I've somehow overlooked some clearly written and cleverly/conveniently posted rules. If it's any consolation, I did look, brief as it was. 🤣 

I posted my own Q1 submission recently. I'm feeling pretty good about it. It's my third time submitting Q2V40. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's just that running my evil empire interfered with my submittal for all of those other quarters. Plus, I had a pretty steep learning curve that required three points of contact at all times as it threatened to buck me off. Hopefully, everyone else's craft experience is less violent!

Anywho! Happy to be here! Happy writing!

JT, we talk about whatever in each thread, really. The focus comes from, most importantly: submissions and consequentially, results.

It's fun to participate in every thread because any one of them could be your winner, and you'll always remember the discussions from that quarter.

I posted about having edited one of my oldest stories and submitted it for a fourth time. I used the beating a dead horse emoji to reflect my thoughts on the matter.

Then I won.

Now I like dead horses.

Not more than alive horses. Just, you know, they're swell.

@jtwrites welcome to the thread. There's a lot of jibber jabber on here between those writing, those submitted, and those twitching till results come in.

Just to confirm, @jtwrites, we do kind of just ramble around the subject and wander off on tangents, the same way you do in person when everyone's talking about something, and some other interesting thing comes up. Eventually someone says something like "Getting back to the topic at hand," and then we're back to whatever the thread was actually about in the first place, until whatever the next tangent happens to be.

Some threads are more focused than this, particularly those about specific craft subjects. But by and large, the quarterly discussions are a bit more free-wheeling, and divided mostly across two points -- before the submission cut-off, when everyone is driving to try and get their story finished and figure out how to turn it into something golden that will help them win, and after the submission cut-off, which first becomes a little quiet, and then increasingly becomes a discussion of pillow-forts and snack food recommendations as everyone starts to hunker down in anticipation of the impending resultalanche.

Then the results come in, we all post them, and because some folks don't post because they made finalist or better, we all try to guess who they are. The exact sequence of this varies depending on how WotF is handling their result notifications in any given quarter. It's a fun game, though, when the schedule permits.

Dead horses are not a strict requirement at any stage.

lol Thank you! I appreciate the validation. That's basically what I gathered. And hey, dead horses need love too, so I can respect that!

I saw that some of the threads have been around a lot longer, some even years, so I was attempting to parse my self-diagnosed ADD into threads that might prove more active. 😆 

Wow, the three of you have racked up quite the list of submissions. I'm referring to what I assume is something like a signature block for your comments. My own list won't be as extensive but I should go look into adjusting mine.

The main reason I wanted to join the forum was because my circle of peers just doesn't include any writer/reader types. I've known about the contest, workshop, and forum since Jan '23. Honestly, I should've joined sooner. When your storytelling education is largely self taught/sought, it's kind of difficult to locate serious peers out in the wilderness we know of as the internet.

Posted by: @tj_knight

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Now I like dead horses.

Not more than alive horses. Just, you know, they're swell.

Posted by: @jtwrites

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The main reason I wanted to join the forum was because my circle of peers just doesn't include any writer/reader types. 

Same with me. Plus, there are free workshops.   

December is kicking my butt. Started to think I might not get my WIP in shape on time, so to be smart I started to re-write the beginning of an RWC story that I think still has potential. That way I'll have something to submit right? Well joke's on me because now I am stuck with both, so that's great.

Anyone else?

Posted by: @tiinag

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Well joke's on me because now I am stuck with both, so that's great.

Anyone else?

Stuck there myself with three tales.

1. New story that might be too dark for WotF, but I like the story
2. HM that I've edited, killed 10% and streamlined
3. New story I have to write the middle and then edit. - Could be a Q2 tale?

 Augh ... haha ... Augh!

@toddjones Sounds like at least you have something ready to go. Might be worth trying with the dark tale even? From humorous story to a dark one, keep them on their toes (wait is that the saying?).

I feel like a some space parasite has leeched onto my brain and taken all the juice.

@tiinag Thanks for the advice. Dark one it is. Toes be damned. haha.