Discussion Q2 Volume 39

@r-w-ware Nice! I do book covers as well but so far self-published stuff, nothing to disqualify me. 

This week or next is when I originally guessed we'd get our Q2 results. My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails. I think they'll send the emails and update the blog with finalized results all in one day. That's my guess. 

By the way, if the pattern holds, Q3 results will be released in November and there'll be a mad rush to get the Q4 results out so volume 39 can be edited and assembled in time for the gala. May there be folks from the forum in attendance!

In the meantime, we could learn a lot from reading through volume 29 jibber jabber. And a lot can be learned from Moon's super secrets. His volume 39 challenge echoes the importance of sending stuff out to professional markets that can be gleaned from the jibber jabber thread. Use this to sharpen stories into diamonds. It's a good lesson that I'm striving to learn myself.

Really glad I attended Moon's Flow state webinar this past weekend. I liked the longer, four hour session better than the rushed 1.5 hour one. My main take away is just how damaging interruptions are. I'm glad it's not just me that has to work hard to get back into flow state after being interrupted,

May all of our received emails this week and next be pleasant... 

Posted by: @physa

My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails.

So it's too soon to give up hope on a second phone call? 

I have a question. Does anyone know what the average length that WotF publishes? I know they accept up to 17k words, but from all the finalists and winners, what’s your average word count for those entries?

I know some publishers state they’ll accept like 10k words, but they’d prefer anything under 5k. What does WotF prefer for finalists and winners?

Thanks!

@annax The average for winning stories is ~7,500 but you can win at any length within the limits. Some judges prefer longer because it allows for more world building but most winning stories do not skirt the 17,000 upper limit. 

Posted by: @annax

I have a question. Does anyone know what the average length that WotF publishes? I know they accept up to 17k words, but from all the finalists and winners, what’s your average word count for those entries?

I know some publishers state they’ll accept like 10k words, but they’d prefer anything under 5k. What does WotF prefer for finalists and winners?

Thanks!

A great example of a longer story that won is "Lilt of a Lark" by Michael Panter in Volume 38. It goes right up against the 17k cut off, but when you're reading it the words just fly by. It's one of my favorites in this volume. But most stories are closer to 5-7k. Personally I try to keep stories there because that means there are other markets for them - the stories that get longer than 7.5k have very few markets aside from WotF to try them at.

For data my finalists were 5k, 8k, and 8k - and it was the 5k story that was a published finalist.

To add to the conversation, I believe it was Kevin J. Anderson specifically who said that if he has a choice between choosing a shorter story and a longer one, he would choose the longer story for the reason that he believes such writes want to go on to write novels and earn a living. He explained more of his reasoning behind it in a podcast I believe which is somewhere on the WotF website, but I'm not sure where.

On another note, I really wish they would reveal the number of entrants for each quarter. It's been previously said that the WotF doesn't want to discourage new entrants from participating by intimidating them with submission counts, but seeing as how this comp is the largest one in the world for unpublished writers (this is still true, is it not?), I don't see why that would matter.

@lambenttyto 

I had never written a short story until my entry this quarter. I have always just written novels. I find them easier, actually. You have the space to expand on conflicts and ideas, for multiple characters and many adventures. Short stories, I think are harder because you have less room for error and you’ve got to have all the necessary components of a novel in a compact form. But short story is fitting for some things. I’ve got two short horrors I’m writing. I don’t know how to make the two horror shorts into novels because it’s not really a novel kind of story. I think I’m learning that short stories are like episodes of tv. One of my favorite shows is Supernatural, so I think of a short story as Sam and Dean on a hunt with a different monster. ?

Posted by: @chriscrob

Posted by: @physa

My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails.

So it's too soon to give up hope on a second phone call? 

If you receive the first call, you always receive a second call. Sadly, five out of eight second calls are the bad news.

Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker

Posted by: @chriscrob

Posted by: @physa

My guess is that all the finalists have been called over a week ago and they are waiting for the judges to pick #1,2, and 3 place before sending out the emails.

So it's too soon to give up hope on a second phone call? 

If you receive the first call, you always receive a second call. Sadly, five out of eight second calls are the bad news.

True. Unless you're Leah Ning. She only received the second call, but it was her first! And was told by Joni she had won. But that was an anomaly, so don't count on that. But it does save all that two-week worrying as final decisions are made! 

[checks email. Alas there is a personal rejection from another publisher on different story. Wonders if this will be double Thursday, today]
[Surprisingly not at all upset, there was good info in there]
[Now going to grab a latte]

@craydimensional I am feeling exactly that exact feeling right now.  ? 

Posted by: @physa

 

Really glad I attended Moon's Flow state webinar this past weekend. I liked the longer, four hour session better than the rushed 1.5 hour one. My main take away is just how damaging interruptions are. I'm glad it's not just me that has to work hard to get back into flow state after being interrupted

Just remember, don't despair that you can't write anything without four hour stretches of uninterrupted quiet. I'm sitting here hacking a novel together a few hundred words at a time, while dealing with kids, work, house stuff, etc. It's tedious and I long for the days when I could write 10k in a sitting, but word by word I'm building the story.

Can't believe you guys are still waiting. Best wishes!

I'll ask my boys if I can invite guests into their pillow fort.  Chin up everyone, it's Thursday (again).

Posted by: @annax

I had never written a short story until my entry this quarter.

I submitted the first short story I ever wrote this quarter!

@chriscrob One step at a time. Rejection is part of the process.

Posted by: @chriscrob
I submitted the first short story I ever wrote this quarter!

Yay! For first times! 

I mean, we can hope it is the last time ?, but chances are, we’ll write more and more and we’ll get better at it. It’s good practice.

Question: How long did some of you winners take to get to being a winner? I’ve watched the forum signatures and I’m really proud of all the people who have been at it for a while. You all deserve props for not giving up! 

Posted by: @annax

I had never written a short story until my entry this quarter.

Nice! It reminds me of my first submission. I got an HM. That was awesome. I hope you get good news. That's a good way to think of short stories. Myself, I don't really write them. I like the novelette, because you can tell a fuller story with a beginning, middle and end.

Posted by: @lambenttyto

Nice! It reminds me of my first submission. I got an HM. That was awesome. I hope you get good news. That's a good way to think of short stories. Myself, I don't really write them. I like the novelette, because you can tell a fuller story with a beginning, middle and end.

Thank you! I hope I get good news too. But I also hope you're entering too! You should!

I agree. I like the novelettes too. I find that I say way too much, and I haven't found a good way to learn to cut out unnecessary words yet.

Posted by: @annax

But I also hope you're entering too!

I have. I'm kind of expecting a rejection, despite thinking this is a rather well written story of mine. But I wrote it in... an interesting way, let's just say. I don't cut out unnecessary words. They're part of my authorial voice. I think people tend to forget that prose is a medium of words, of voice and personality of the author as well as the character, not just necessarily an invisible vehicle to deliver story. I used to prefer invisible prose, but after writing over a million words, I'm bored with that, lol.

Posted by: @wulfmoon

But it does save all that two-week worrying as final decisions are made! 

Two weeks? Phsaw - back when I was a finalist, I had to wait six!

That might have been back before the Internet, though... (Actually, it was a paper sub.)

Posted by: @lambenttyto

Posted by: @annax

But I also hope you're entering too!

I have. I'm kind of expecting a rejection, despite thinking this is a rather well written story of mine. But I wrote it in... an interesting way, let's just say. I don't cut out unnecessary words. They're part of my authorial voice. I think people tend to forget that prose is a medium of words, of voice and personality of the author as well as the character, not just necessarily an invisible vehicle to deliver story. I used to prefer invisible prose, but after writing over a million words, I'm bored with that, lol.

Every editor will tell you that what they most want is a unique voice.

Some editors will also tell you to cut, cut, cut, with newspaper terseness.

They cannot see the contradiction here. They're cutting voice.

@kd-julicher yes! This! I love when I can get away to write for longer chunks but I have four kids and my husband has two jobs outside of our writing so much of my writing happens in small chunks. For years I was writing one-handed while nursing babies so it can be done, and sometimes it’s either that or no writing at all.

@martin-l-shoemaker I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I don’t enjoy writing without room for voice and honestly I don’t enjoy reading stories that are so tightly edited that I can’t feel the author’s voice. I read for tasty words as much as for story.

@lambenttyto I agree with you on the importance of unique prose and the author’s voice.

Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker

Posted by: @lambenttyto

Posted by: @annax

But I also hope you're entering too!

I have. I'm kind of expecting a rejection, despite thinking this is a rather well written story of mine. But I wrote it in... an interesting way, let's just say. I don't cut out unnecessary words. They're part of my authorial voice. I think people tend to forget that prose is a medium of words, of voice and personality of the author as well as the character, not just necessarily an invisible vehicle to deliver story. I used to prefer invisible prose, but after writing over a million words, I'm bored with that, lol.

Every editor will tell you that what they most want is a unique voice.

Some editors will also tell you to cut, cut, cut, with newspaper terseness.

They cannot see the contradiction here. They're cutting voice.

I agree with @clfors, I enjoy tasty words. To me, the author’s voice is as important as any other part of the book. At the same time, I’ve been enjoying making my writing ‘tighter’, shuffling the building blocks of sentences around to create the most empathy in the least amount of space.

I personally wish more people would submit on the shorter side to make room for more published finalists.

I’m sitting here (like the rest of you) writing and trying to not think about how long it’s taking to get results; when something I hadn’t thought of, hit me.

Martin eluded to it but I’m too slow to pick up on it. I think things (contest results) are in the state they’re in because we JUST lost another very important author in the writing community. Not more than just three weeks ago; Eric Flint passed away.

Now, I didn’t know Eric personally but I know many of his colleagues and they loved him. Losing Eric is ANOTHER heavy loss for everyone and I don’t doubt the profound effect it must have on our judges.

To that end I apologize for any impatience I might’ve shown here. As one who didn’t know Eric, it was lost on me the kind of grief many are feeling.

To Kary, Jody, Joni, and anyone else at WOTF who may be mourning; please take your time. I am deeply sorry for your loss.

[peeks into pillow fort]

[lights another candle for the recently fallen]

[kneels down to pray]

[a crescendo of refresh clicks fills the air]

[wipes fresh tears from my eyes]

[another long day, I expect]

@wahlquistj I’ve also been working on that in my editing because we are always building our skill and craft, yes? Ever students of the written word! I like how you put that. I’ve called it economical writing but I blame my business degree on that phrasing ? You’ve done the concept much more justice.