Discussion: Q3 Volume 38

Posted by: @czing

I have thought about aiming for 100 rejections a year...

According to the Grinder dashboard I'm at 148 for the year so far. I might miss my goal (set when I realized, almost by accident, that I'd hit a hundred, back in August) of TWO HUNDRED rejections in 2021, cause, come the Holidays, reading slows way down.

Posted by: @doctorjest

Yeah, I'm becoming tempted to take advantage of the delay and submit early in October, just so I can have three stories pending at WotF for the first time ever...I mean, it's a sort of a goal, right?

Did you go with that? I have three stuck in the amber of "judging" and it was never a GOAL...

Posted by: @angelslayah

Posted by: @doctorjest

Yeah, I'm becoming tempted to take advantage of the delay and submit early in October, just so I can have three stories pending at WotF for the first time ever...I mean, it's a sort of a goal, right?

Did you go with that? I have three stuck in the amber of "judging" and it was never a GOAL...

I scratched it, as the story I was working on for Q1 ran into snags. I'm working up a new story now, so whether or not I'm able to do this really depends on how quickly--and if--that one comes together for me.

I'm pretty sure we've had word on this thread or maybe a different one that we shouldn't expect results until after the gala - but I don't recall if there was any note on when the gala actually is. I popped around the site a bit to see if it was noted anywhere but couldn't see a date. Anyone know?

I went to the WotF newsroom and it says next Friday, Oct.22.

Posted by: @storysinger

I went to the WotF newsroom and it says next Friday, Oct.22.

 

Yes. Read the workshop blogs starting October 17th (or 18th if they publish the next day). Live-streamed gala is on Friday, October 22nd, 7:30 PM. Go to writersofthefuture.com to watch. Don’t miss it! It helps you visualize what it would be like for you to win!

Posted by: @wulfmoon

Posted by: @storysinger

I went to the WotF newsroom and it says next Friday, Oct.22.

 

Yes. Read the workshop blogs starting October 17th (or 18th if they publish the next day). Live-streamed gala is on Friday, October 22nd, 7:30 PM. Go to writersofthefuture.com to watch. Don’t miss it! It helps you visualize what it would be like for you to win!

And makes the disappointment so much more bitter (bitterer?) when you — okay I'm really talking about ME here — get the R or HM. Although my HM was easier to swallow than my prior R's. A step in the right direction at least.

@morgan-broadhead 

It's better to celebrate the success of our fellows, than to feel bitter over their achievement and our lack thereof. It's an emotion that can turn to resentment and even envy if we're not careful. Granted, we're human, and this trail we climb is not an easy one. I tried to win this contest for twenty-five years, and it was frustrating at times to come so close and miss the mark. But if we recognize that we are all at different points on our writing journey, the success of others can really give us hope. They were once where we are, and they made it to that summit we seek. I watched many of my friends in Wordos (the writing group with the most WotF wins) and in this forum work hard and win the award. I rejoiced with them. It told me if they could do it, so could I. 

I celebrated every certificate I received, and posted the growing mosaic to Facebook, just from my years submitting with David Farland as judge. When that batch was around a dozen, Brad Torgersen made a comment that was sobering. He said you have to be honest and recognize the winners wrote a better story than yours. You're not a bad writer, they just wrote one that was better. That stung at first, but I recognized that for the most part, that statement is true. These judges are no slackers, they're top in the field, and they know what gold looks like in the pan. My take from that? I just had to write a story that was better, that's all. As long as I kept working hard at my craft and pushing past all my boundaries, my turn would come. And it did, just a couple quarters later as it turned out.

I encourage all to watch the 2020/2021 Writers of the Future Achievement Awards. Some of those wonderful people taking the stage are from this very forum. They're our friends. Celebrate with them! They did it! 

And if they can do it, so can we.

All the beast!

Wulf Moon

An excellent take, Wulf. I assume bitterness/envy could be a struggle for most of us at some point. But I genuinely love seeing others that you know are working hard take the win. Celebrating with them is important.

I can't remember which WotF podcast it was (Tim Powers?) who pointed out they're not troubled at all by the success (book sales) of others. If you write in Fantasy and another author writes an exciting Fantasy novel that does well, it may still encourage the readers to look for other books in that genre, such as your own. Of course, that is not the main reason you would celebrate the success of another author, but it may be a good reminder that the success of others doesn't have to affect you in a negative way.

@scott_m_sands 

Nicely said.

As we reach out for things we like and authors we love, growing others and paying it forward, it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

~A. ♥

This will be my first Gala to watch. Looking forward to watching online. Maybe one day I will make it in person.

@aliciacay 

Love this.

@wulfmoon 

Very well said! And as your own journey shows, what's to say our time is not in the next quarter? The success of others does not diminish our own, and if we can be happy for others when it's their time to celebrate, there will be more people to celebrate when it is our time too.

The closest thing I feel to bitterness (and @Morgan both "more bitter" and "bitterer" are acceptable) is that a contest that keeps a story out of circulation for 90 days at a minimum can't manage not to make that 110 days -or more- because an award ceremony which is always part of the schedule somehow interferes.
Multiply that by the hundreds (thousands? do we have figures on submissions?) of entries they're holding onto and this contest, by itself, is disturbing the tide of submissions elsewhere in the final few days before the various holiday seasons slow readings to a trickle. 
Hey, it's a nice contest and all! I just wish it turned around results more on-the-clock.

:Rant Ends Here:

Posted by: @angelslayah

can't manage not to make

(I'm a connoisseur of the ol' double-n) 

Posted by: @angelslayah

The closest thing I feel to bitterness (and @Morgan both "more bitter" and "bitterer" are acceptable) is that a contest that keeps a story out of circulation for 90 days at a minimum can't manage not to make that 110 days -or more- because an award ceremony which is always part of the schedule somehow interferes.
Multiply that by the hundreds (thousands? do we have figures on submissions?) of entries they're holding onto and this contest, by itself, is disturbing the tide of submissions elsewhere in the final few days before the various holiday seasons slow readings to a trickle. 
Hey, it's a nice contest and all! I just wish it turned around results more on-the-clock.

:Rant Ends Here:

 

 

 

Yup, WotF takes a long time to announce its quarterly results. It can be nail-biting and the wait feels interminable, but this is the biggest contest of its type. What other short story contest pays to fly you out to Hollywood, put you up, and provide a formal gala for its winners? In addition to the prize money? I can wait a little longer for my results in hopes of that.

I'd initially wondered the same thing, with an October gala, but this gala is not WotF's regularly scheduled event. It normally happens in springtime. After COVID reared its ugly head, they cancelled last year's gala and then postponed this year's. So the folks down at WotF are putting together a DOUBLE gala to celebrate those who won. I've helped organize large conferences with a small crew, and that's no small feat. I can wait a little longer for my results to cheer on those who came before me.

So, what do we do during this unusually long wait? I decided to study, write more, hone my craft. I found another contest (which closed yesterday) and wrote a fresh story for them. Sure, I'd love to get my Q3 out to the market, but by the time I see it again I hope to be better, wiser in the ways of writing, so I can hone it into a selling story. Winning would be great, but I'm here to learn how to write. It's the whole point of WotF, to cultivate the next generation of SF/F writers. As I wait a little longer for my results, I can make my Q1 even better than my Q3 was.

Write on!

Posted by: @angelslayah

The closest thing I feel to bitterness (and @Morgan both "more bitter" and "bitterer" are acceptable) is that a contest that keeps a story out of circulation for 90 days at a minimum can't manage not to make that 110 days -or more- because an award ceremony which is always part of the schedule somehow interferes.
Multiply that by the hundreds (thousands? do we have figures on submissions?) of entries they're holding onto and this contest, by itself, is disturbing the tide of submissions elsewhere in the final few days before the various holiday seasons slow readings to a trickle. 
Hey, it's a nice contest and all! I just wish it turned around results more on-the-clock.

:Rant Ends Here:

 

 

 

I've never seen any definitive numbers, but I've heard many times there are THOUSANDS of entries every single quarter. No idea though if we're talking single thousands or tens of thousands. But it's the biggest global science fiction and fantasy contest in the world...at least the biggest one I know of.

Just out of curiosity, I headed over to The Grinder to check market response times for various venues. There are many who are 90 days and longer. Most are shorter, yes. But 90 days doesn't seem too far outside the realm of typical.

It’s like Jurassic Park - all the challenges of a major theme park and animal park combined except it’s a huge contest and an anthology. No News is No News. Don’t stress results, because then we’re suffering twice. Results for this Q are already out of our hands, so focus on what you can control - your next story.

As for bitterness, I can empathize with ye olde imposter demon feelings, but as for feeling bitter at others for succeeding, yeah, we should avoid that.

Nobody is on your journey but you. 

what @moon said! We should support one another and recognize our humanness as well. And I'll reiterate... this is my favorite part of the contest, the not knowing what the quarter results are, but knowing the results will be released in the near future. And also... with the gala being online it will be a nice opportunity to tune in if my schedule allows. Can't believe that's so close! I can only imagine the pins and needles of those who've been invited for a week long event of learning and celebration! I hope that their week will be captured in words and I just love reading about the accounts of the winners during their week of recognition of a job well done! I also hope they can travel safe and be safe at the event which they'll remember for the rest of their lives. I'm looking forward to working even harder for the next writing year!  

For me, my main focus is the WotF competition. Writing a solid (in my eyes) story to submit once a quarter, with my work and family commitments, is about all I can currently achieve (I've submitted for two quarters in a row for the first time). So, I don't really mind the wait. It gives me time to focus on my next story and I am nowhere near being able to produce a dozen or so short stories per year. I've had one story published in Daily Science Fiction, one more is due to be published in a different flash fiction market at the end of this month, so I am not in the position where I think "I could be selling this elsewhere" with what I submit. Besides, my focus is on WotF and everything else is secondary. If my stories do well but don't win WotF, I'll dust myself and the story off, put my tuxedo back in storage , give the story a review and edit, and send it out to find a home.

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

Posted by: @angelslayah

The closest thing I feel to bitterness (and @Morgan both "more bitter" and "bitterer" are acceptable) is that a contest that keeps a story out of circulation for 90 days at a minimum can't manage not to make that 110 days -or more- because an award ceremony which is always part of the schedule somehow interferes.

:Rant Ends Here:

Just out of curiosity, I headed over to The Grinder to check market response times for various venues. There are many who are 90 days and longer. Most are shorter, yes. But 90 days doesn't seem too far outside the realm of typical.

Right. That's the way I look at it, too. Two of the "big three" in sci-fi (Analog and Asimov's) both have response times on the order of three months. 

I now have sufficient stories that my problem is no longer having a story available for sub, but rather having a market available. So I alternate between writing more stories—most of which are aimed at an anthology to publish—and writing on a novel.  

Keep writing, folks. WotF is great, but it's not the only reason to write.

Writers of The Future is the largest discovery contest in the world for speculative fiction writers. They have thousands of entries (not tens of thousands) each quarter. They have one highly trained and experienced first reader that’s a former Hugo nominee, and she carefully goes through each submission before deciding if it goes on to a very busy David Farland. Be glad she takes her job seriously, or your story might get no more than a cursory glance. Be glad Dave takes his job seriously, and carefully considers every story sent on to him. As you can see from results, it’s over 400 stories each quarter, and those are just the ones he gives honors to. How many short stories do you read in a quarter? On top of that, four additional judges must be selected to judge the eight finalists. Think of logistics and waiting for them to read and judge some stories that are pushing 17k. Then there’s the calls, the matching of numbers to names since this is a blind contest, and notifications to all that entered! It’s a monumental task, and in the time of Covid, mail subs have moved abysmally slow, and those must be judged in every quarter, too.

Publishing moves glacially slow. Impatience will not serve you well in this business, and reveals a naïveté of all the work involved in a massive worldwide mission to help promising new writers get discovered. Thrice I’ve waited a year or more at respectable publishers to hear back on my submissions. My patience was rewarded with two sales to Deep Magic, and one to Mike Resnick’s Galaxy’s Edge. And these are just short story markets. Wait until you start submitting novels.

Think twice about venting publicly against publishers and contests about their wait time. It reveals a lack of knowledge of how much overworked editors, judges, and contest coordinators have to do in the decision making process, and it can tarnish your reputation. Editors want to work with good people that act professionally if they choose to publish them. Everything you post on the internet can be looked up and read, even here.

Make sure your footprints leave a good impression.

All the best,

Wulf Moon

Posted by: @wulfmoon

Think twice about venting publicly against publishers and contests about their wait time. It reveals a lack of knowledge of how much overworked editors, judges, and contest coordinators have to do in the decision making process, and it can tarnish your reputation. Editors want to work with good people that act professionally if they choose to publish them. Everything you post on the internet can be looked up and read, even here.

Make sure your footprints leave a good impression.

Excellent thoughts, Wulf. I just did the math. I can't even imagine reading over a hundred short stories every work day for two months or so. That's about a dozen stories an hour, every hour, day in and day out. Not with any level of comprehension or quality review. We the writers are the supplicants here, it's up to us to have enough humility to acknowledge the phenomenal job done by readers and editors.

In line with what Wulf said, I am still dumbstruck when I think of the amount of work involved in judging this contest. I have no qualms in admitting that there is no way on earth that I would be able to do it in the system designed here. As a mere contestant, I too suffer from the nerves and anxiety regarding the waiting period but here is the important thing. This is a free contest where writers have everything to gain while the judges do not get paid by the writers. This is not a paid service where writers have earned a claim to service in the way they desire. Like Doc Honour said, we are quite clearly supplicants. WOTF is a massive boon bestowed to immensely blessed mortals. When one considers the incredible multitasking, focus, and grit it would take to get this done, I am in awe of the judges and the staff at every stage of the process. And yes, I do wish to be free of this waiting limbo because I dislike waiting in general. Yet, inexperienced in the business as I am, I can clearly recognize the gargantuan complexity of the judging task here. It is impossible for me to do and thus the people who do it have my utmost respect. And since it is free and there is no ownership/obligation in the service provided, I hope everybody recognizes the immense favor being done for them.

And about the success of others, there is no way one can deny the invaluable educational experience of seeing the works deemed worthy by industry stalwarts. I have done a lot of courses and other readings to improve my own craft of writing. However, there are few things out there as enlightening as learning from the successes of others. On that note alone, it is imperative that folks respect, enjoy and learn from the successes of others here. Now at a personal level, I love comparing my own work to successful people. It often gives me a great sense of achievement that then serves as a vital source of inspiration.  

@scott_m_sands The fact that Ken Liu wrote a series using the same source material I used to write my novel does not dismay me at all. It gave me an award-winning comp title!

I don't have anything to add, but I do want to chime in quickly to say that I really appreciated reading everyone's perspective on this. The positive attitudes are as uplifting as always. I'm glad to be here.

I'm kind of excited to get my impending R from Q3 because since writing Q4 and other stories I realized all the ways I could have made things worse for my MC. What was I sparing him for?! Once I get back the result, and toughen my skin after the blow, hopefully it'll give me just the right impetus to edit the story and send it off somewhere else.

Sometimes I've even started editing before getting results back but these past few months have left me too busy so I made a mental deadline for myself to do it when results come. Lets just hope all the rejections don't come at once. Or is it better if they don't come one right after the other?

Write on!

@scribblesatdusk 

No matter how many times I re-read a story before submission, once I hit "submit" I find a dozen ways to improve the story that had cleverly concealed themselves in my now suddenly less than amazing prose  

I sometimes think it's better to receive all the rejections at once, but when that has happened, I felt so sorry for myself I then wished that the bad news was spread out over a couple weeks -- go figure!

The contest may mean something different to me than it does to you, and that's great. We're all here doing the same thing, coming from different places! 
I think I'm in line with others here who say: Writing your stories, exposing them to to the market, improving your craft are what it's all about, our end.
Suggesting that an improvement is possible their end wouldn't seem worth warning off. They got one primary reader? Well there's your problem right there!

(smileyface)

Posted by: @wulfmoon

Make sure your footprints leave a good impression.

So many wonderful images and fantastic reminders on this thread. I'm going to skim back over it a few times over the next week or so. I love feeling inspired to support others (lighting candles!), congratulate others and appreciate others. 
Inspiring stuff.