Discussion Q4 Volume 38

@foxed @penmark Congrats on industrious habits paying off!

Oddly, I’m in the same boat. I actually finished first drafts on two stories this week (the second is super short at 2600 words and came at me out of the blue). Last quarter I struggled to write one comprehensive story and shook my head in awe when folks said they wrote multiple stories a quarter and picked the best one.

Of course, they have to pass my first reader to see if I’m in the ballpark of readable before I send them for critique, but I’m feeling pretty good at this point.

To avoid over editing, I decided to start on a third, because, why not? Or maybe I should go do all those chores I’ve been neglecting so I could write…

@lost_bard Woah. I definitely aspire to writing more than one story each quarter, but I'm not sure I have the brainpower to write them simultaneously. Congrats! Enjoy having your pick of the litter when the deadline rolls around.  

First day without a commitment or a paper looming and I wake up covered head-to-toe with a rash. Probably a reaction to some antibiotics. I grumble and go to the urgent care. They are packed. Decide to call my doc instead. She can get me in at 3. A little longer than the urgent care, but a definite time. Stop by my wife's work. She takes some pics and sends to her aunt who is a nurse. Aunt thinks I look septic and to expect to be sent to ER (actually ED, but whatever). So, now I'm furiously typing on my story because I may end up with a hospital stay later this afternoon.

@babooher Very sorry for the health emergency, babooher! I do admire your dedication. May better days come soon!

Update: Probably just an allergic reaction. Tests were inconclusive either way.

Anyway, more words on the page are probably good.

Phew! So, most of the moving is done--we still have the usual unboxing and admin remaining, and I have one more manual trip to run back to our previous home in a couple of weeks, but things are finally starting to settle down again. With any luck I'll be able to start working through revisions to my Q4 with plenty of time in hand to get the whole thing polished and ready to roll! In the meantime, by way of a warm-up, I've sketched out a new opening for a possible next-Q1 entry as well--it'd need a ton of revision, but it's nice to get my eye back in a little after a spell of serious disruption.

Also, addendum -- @babooher, I hope you're feeling better, and that your writing is going wonderfully!

Just checking in to see how everyone is doing with Q4. My Q4 is going but I am struggling with ending.

I'm happy with mine, but I want to spend a little time on it. I got some excellent criticism back for it, which I'm very grateful for--it both liked what I'd done, and had some excellent suggestions for how to tighten and improve it to bring it up just one more notch. My plan is to revisit it properly this coming weekend when I can sit down with it all and spend a few hours with it. I'm tinkering with one or two other items in the meantime, somewhat by way of a warm-up for that.

Posted by: @craydimensional

Just checking in to see how everyone is doing with Q4. My Q4 is going but I am struggling with ending.

I'd be curious to know, if you can answer without giving away story details, what issues you're running into with this.

There is an action section toward at the climax that I don’t want to rush or drag out. I think I took on too much actually.

I already subbed for Q3 and Q4. I'm a little disappointed with my Q3 submission 'cause I found out just the other day that it has a lot of typos. It's also weird, violent and unconventional, so it's safe to assume a HM is the best I can get out of it. If I don't get disqualified that is...

My Q4 story is more polished up and it has a more traditional structure. In part, I've followed Dan Hammond's story circle. The newest post on the blog talks about how winner stories tend to be simple stories. I guess I can keep dreaming with this one.

Posted by: @craydimensional

There is an action section toward at the climax that I don’t want to rush or drag out. I think I took on too much actually.

Oh, tricky for sure. My gut says to keep it, though--shying away from the difficult-to-write scenes is definitely not the thing to do if you're trying to win this contest. New writers, and writers who aren't confident in their powers yet, will sometimes look for ways to avoid having to write the difficult scenes, but while it may be tricky to get it just right, nailing the hard-to-write bits is definitely a hallmark of contest winners.

@babooher
I'm glad it wasn't anything too serious and that you're feeling better! It's awesome you got words in while waiting. That's admirable dedication!

@craydimensional
My Q4 is a reworking of an already written story. The original got me a personal line from Sheree at F&SF, but the ending is weak. I've pulled it all the way back to outline/first draft level in order to work out that heart's desire/moral choice ending and create a greater emotional depth and ending. Easy, right? :'(

@alexvss
Tim Powers has said he prefers a simple tale told simply. I can dig for the reference if needed. I remember the first time I heard this, then read Patrick Rothfuss's winning story in Vol. 18, and when I attempted to duplicate this style of simple clear language and simple direct storytelling, I got my first Finalist story. So ... maybe there's something to it! 😉

Good luck, all. I know I need it... LOL

~A. ♥

@henckel Same! 

I've got a 35 line outline so far.  It's time to get a little more active.

Posted by: @craydimensional

There is an action section toward at the climax that I don’t want to rush or drag out. I think I took on too much actually.

This is going to sound weird, but the way the viewpoint character feels in an action scene (how the fight affects them, what they're trying to accomplish with it, how they feel as they get closer to or farther from their goal) can be worlds more important than the action itself. I've found that, at least for myself, focusing on internal reactions helps to pad out a fight scene without having it just be endless variations of "X punched Y. Y stabbed at X."

I'm hung on how to find a Q4 entry that is shiver worthy. Argh! And it looks like I'll be adjuncting for 3 different colleges this fall so there's that. I'm hopeful Farland's 318 writing class and Moon's workshop on KYD will help me get over my block.

@disgruntledpeony That's actually what differentiates prose from other medias. If you just write a blow-by-blow scene, you're not using the tools that literature has to offer. Writing Excuses has some episodes about this.

First draft complete, Hard SF Humor. Took time to study the idea with several (up to 3,000 words) exercises to discover the best way to treat the idea: Mystery, Flash, dialog-driven narrative, first or third person, etc. It helps to solidify the idea and identify character characteristics necessary for telling the story.

Letting it rest, now.

Working on another idea so I'll have a choice at the deadline.

@physa I think you already have your shiver test answer. The original KYD you did at the part with the strange angels and their actions. Gave me the shivers.

Posted by: @disgruntledpeony

Posted by: @craydimensional

There is an action section toward at the climax that I don’t want to rush or drag out. I think I took on too much actually.

This is going to sound weird, but the way the viewpoint character feels in an action scene (how the fight affects them, what they're trying to accomplish with it, how they feel as they get closer to or farther from their goal) can be worlds more important than the action itself. I've found that, at least for myself, focusing on internal reactions helps to pad out a fight scene without having it just be endless variations of "X punched Y. Y stabbed at X."

Doesn't sound weird to me. I'm finally getting there, tho.

Was watching some show on some streaming the other day and there was this action sequence and I thought, I don't care, I just want to see the fallout. Not sure if that means I'm maturing or just aging.

I'm thinking about that a bunch with my Q4. Instead of just, what happens to the character, I'm wondering what happens to their mental state, their emotional state. Hoping that sets up the scenes with a little more depth.

Posted by: @axeminister

Posted by: @disgruntledpeony

Posted by: @craydimensional

There is an action section toward at the climax that I don’t want to rush or drag out. I think I took on too much actually.

This is going to sound weird, but the way the viewpoint character feels in an action scene (how the fight affects them, what they're trying to accomplish with it, how they feel as they get closer to or farther from their goal) can be worlds more important than the action itself. I've found that, at least for myself, focusing on internal reactions helps to pad out a fight scene without having it just be endless variations of "X punched Y. Y stabbed at X."

Doesn't sound weird to me. I'm finally getting there, tho.

Was watching some show on some streaming the other day and there was this action sequence and I thought, I don't care, I just want to see the fallout. Not sure if that means I'm maturing or just aging.

I'm thinking about that a bunch with my Q4. Instead of just, what happens to the character, I'm wondering what happens to their mental state, their emotional state. Hoping that sets up the scenes with a little more depth.

 

You're describing the character's emotional arc, which really is more important than if X stabbed Y. Action without reflection is just junk TV. I've found that the stories I enjoyed the most were the ones where you felt the angst and pain (emotional and/or physical) because of the internal conflicts it raises. Action should feed the emotional arc, not necessarily be an end in and of itself.

When you all are editing/revising your stories, do you find the need to wait some time before implementing any changes? For example the last few days I have been re-reading my story, figuring out some inconsistencies, where I need to flesh out motives/setting/etc, but I find that I often need to totally switch gears and work on something else while I let my initial story "cool off", then I can approach it more objectively. Even when digesting critique information, I have ideas on how to solve issues within my piece, but feel I still need to take atleast 5-7 days away from my piece before I start implementing them, otherwise such changes come across as...not as organic as the rest of the story. 

Anyways, just wondering if other people deal with this or are able to just work/edit their piece without stopping. It's kind of a nuisance because it prevents me from churning out finished work at a high rate. But I guess if I'm spending the time working on something else, it's not a waste.

I usually put it away for a while before I edit at all. Let it simmer for a bit while I come up with the next thing. 

Posted by: @foxed

When you all are editing/revising your stories, do you find the need to wait some time before implementing any changes? For example the last few days I have been re-reading my story, figuring out some inconsistencies, where I need to flesh out motives/setting/etc, but I find that I often need to totally switch gears and work on something else while I let my initial story "cool off", then I can approach it more objectively. Even when digesting critique information, I have ideas on how to solve issues within my piece, but feel I still need to take atleast 5-7 days away from my piece before I start implementing them, otherwise such changes come across as...not as organic as the rest of the story. 

Anyways, just wondering if other people deal with this or are able to just work/edit their piece without stopping. It's kind of a nuisance because it prevents me from churning out finished work at a high rate. But I guess if I'm spending the time working on something else, it's not a waste.

Really depends on my timeline for getting the story done. This quarter, for instance, there's zero room for waiting because my story is a little longer than usual. From outline to zero draft to rough draft to a few rewrites to reader and editor reviews to final rewrite — I'm pushing right up against the September 30 deadline. I'll have some time off — maybe a week or ten days — while other people are reviewing it, in which I'll likely do absolutely NOTHING but try and catch a little R&R.

In prior stories though, which were much shorter, I had time to take a short break between rewrites, usually a couple of weeks. Just not this time.

@foxed It's a good idea to let a story have a cool down before editing. It helps you to view it from the perspective of a reader instead of the  writer. Even overnight helps. Unless you wrote almost the entire story on the last day of the contest year and don't even have time to read it. Then, you push SEND at 11:56 PM before the portal closes, and pray you did your job right.  

Started an interesting new story and wrote a fascinating intro with some great characters. Sat back to admire my opening pages and realized that I wrote seven pages of world building before my hero actually started his quest. Drat, I drove to the story. It was an interesting drive, but failed to start my freaking hero’s quest. *sigh* 

@lost_bard I do that ALL the time... it's how my brain works through worldbuilding details.  And then I have to go promptly slash it all back out.  Lol.  I'm getting better about not including it all in my first drafts, either, but sometimes I need to, to get everything straight in my brain, so I think that's okay if you do! ... As long as you then remember to go rewrite the opening to start that dang quest right away! 😉 

Sometimes you really do need that brain dump first. 

I save my deleted parts in a "Cut Bits" file in case I want to reference them (or sprinkle them in sparingly) later.  Makes it easier to ruthlessly slash them. Lol. 

Posted by: @wulfmoon

@foxed It's a good idea to let a story have a cool down before editing. It helps you to view it from the perspective of a reader instead of the  writer. Even overnight helps. Unless you wrote almost the entire story on the last day of the contest year and don't even have time to read it. Then, you push SEND at 11:56 PM before the portal closes, and pray you did your job right.  

Now who would do that?  

Just more proof that you have honed your skills and are indeed the Beastmaster. 😉 

Posted by: @lost_bard

Started an interesting new story and wrote a fascinating intro with some great characters. Sat back to admire my opening pages and realized that I wrote seven pages of world building before my hero actually started his quest. Drat, I drove to the story. It was an interesting drive, but failed to start my freaking hero’s quest. *sigh* 

If there's still a conflict that sets up the characters and the information the readers get becomes relevant later, it might still work. If not, you can always set it aside to mine for useful bits later.