[Sticky] Formatting - a good first impression

Do you think it's better to put the story title in the header, or in the footer with the page number? And how do you usually justify the title/page number in the header/footer.  My last submission was right justified, only because that's what looked right to me. I think I had my page numbers in the header last time, and didn't have my title in the header or footer at all 😅 So clearly I needed this guidance!  Thanks for sharing!

I used my own template for this. Once I had it set up, I would right click, make a copy, open, then change the story, keeping all the formatting. 

Thus, bottom right for both things. I found having the title or even the page # on the top distracting. When I went from reading the bottom of a page to the top of the next I saw the title, but when it was in the bottom right I ignored it. Might be one of those the the things (A the at the end of a sentence and a the at the beginning of the next one is most times only seen once by a reader). 

@bootzenkatzen Shunn standard manuscript format uses top right for the page numbers. I've always put my page numbers in the top right also, just because that's the way I saw Shunn do it. No idea though if Writers of the Future has a preference. If I recall correctly, page numbers appear in the bottom right of the printed anthology.

I just follow Shunn also, minus the names as the competition needs anon. It's then ready to be submitted elsewhere immediately with no format changes if it's not a fit here.

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

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@bootzenkatzen Shunn standard manuscript format uses top right for the page numbers. I've always put my page numbers in the top right also, just because that's the way I saw Shunn do it. No idea though if Writers of the Future has a preference. If I recall correctly, page numbers appear in the bottom right of the printed anthology.

Posted by: @tj_knight

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Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

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@bootzenkatzen Shunn standard manuscript format uses top right for the page numbers. I've always put my page numbers in the top right also, just because that's the way I saw Shunn do it. No idea though if Writers of the Future has a preference. If I recall correctly, page numbers appear in the bottom right of the printed anthology.

Love the subliminal hint there. I never thought of that.

 

Since none of my stories have ever won Writers of the Future (yet), I just use default Shunn format so I can punt them right back out into the submission world to other markets as soon as WoTF rejects them. Makes it easy just like @gideonpsmith mentions above.

Then again, maybe the reason my stories haven't won yet is because I keep putting my page numbers in the wrong place! Gah! Rejectomancy!

I had no idea about any type of format styles until I read the above posts. Thanks for the PDF @tj_knight!

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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I just follow Shunn also

Ditto.

You can just google it, there's a site on it.

I doubt it matters too much, as it sounds like your likely asked to make a few edits anyway.

"Put in tabs."

"Change the 42 font."

Not difficult.

"I'm not reading this, it's in times new Roman."

I suspect they'd just change that them selves if they last the first few lines.

Depends how pompous they're feeling.

Should try a psychedelic background colour and see what happens.

Potter got through because of an interesting binder.

That last comment above is simply not good advice. For those of you who are new, please don’t follow it.

Your formatting does actually matter. Shunn Standard is perfectly acceptable. Editing the stories that make up the anthology has more to do with the content than the formatting. You want to be a professionally published writer. Please submit a professional looking story.

Contrary to what was presented above, the first readers and judges are not pompous gatekeepers who are trying to keep you out. They are dedicated volunteers who are desperately hoping your story is a winner. They actually WANT to read amazing stories. Don’t give them an excuse to reject your story.

Write the best stories you can and keep sending them in. 

My WotF entries:

Courier New font (12pt). I forego the first page, thirteen line rule. Title centered on the first page, but not bold, then two full, double-spaced lines before beginning the manuscript. One inch margins, half inch indents. I disable Window/Orphan control. No header or footer info on the first page.

Title centered in the second and subsequent page headers. Page number right justified in the second and subsequent page footers.

Chapter/section breaks marked with a centered hashtag (Tradition!) (I remove the auto indent, so it is correctly centered). But sometimes I sneak in an asterisk (because it's my *).

For other markets, I always adhere to their guidelines (Back in the day, one wanted only auto indent paragraphs after a new OS and apps came out, so I had to remove the manual indents from thirty pages of paragraphs in a story for them. Sheesh). If the market does not include formatting guidelines, then I adhere to the Science Fiction Writers of America (SFWA) formatting guidelines.

Formatting is part of the business of writing, and as such, is one of the few things that I am completely serious about in writing. Get it right or editors will reject your mss without reading them. I've spoken with editors who say they don't even see badly formatted mss as slush readers reject them without a second thought.

Formatting is business, and only business. No one is being mean. No one is angry. Markets must process thousands of stories in a very short time and have limited budgets to do so. Set up a default template that will please them.

As always, have fun.

I find using Scrivener super helpful as I don't have to do the formatting manually, just choose what to include/exclude and which format to compile my story into.

@tiinag 

I LOVED my Scrivener back when I wrote on a MacBook. But then I migrated to an iPad, and the Scrivener app was ... less loved. Far fewer options available on the downgraded app for iPads. But even on the MacBook, I noticed some wonky formatting issues when it came time to compile the document into Word. I usually had to go through the manuscript and make minor tweaks. Probably had less to do with Scrivener though and more to do with me being an Apple user who hates Microsoft for being the monstrous, cash-munching, error-prone, dumpster-beast that it is.

Yes, I'll tell you how I really feel.

Scrivener is fantastic, especially for longer works. But I've found it to be a little overkill for smaller works like short stories and flash, kind of like driving 175 MPH in a Bugatti just to grab a few groceries from the corner store.

@morgan-broadhead

Haha, yes I see how it can seem like an overkill for short stories, but I freely admit I use it for writing anything of any length 😀 Partly because I also have my old MacBook and would have to convert anything written in Pages to other file type anyway, but mainly because for my brain, the ability to have my scenes separated in tabs and easily jump between them makes it so much easier to plan and stay organized. I haven't had problems when compiling into docx but any other file type it's not great. But like you said, that's probably more due to Apple than Scrivener. I am not tech savvy at all, so anything that simplifies the technical aspect of writing, I'll take it!

Posted by: @kent

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Formatting is business, and only business

Unfortunately correct.

Good stories get tossed.

Bad ones have good formatting.

Except my own, of course.

We almost lost Harry Potter.

Any other near misses?

I know Carrie was literally in the bin before King's wife(?) pulled it out and read it, told him to finish it.

Posted by: @tj_knight

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Over my 12 years of entering I've made scattered notes, posts, and even a .doc of what the judges have said they prefer in regards to formatting. I finally compiled my notes into a three page pdf and here it is!

I imagine many of you know these things already, but maybe they'll be something new and or helpful. 😊 

* Side note - these are not requirements, just stuff I've gleaned throughout my time.

-- attachment is not available --

What a fantastic resource!

I found it helpful to have a Blank Manuscript template for new projects (nothing's worse than a pure white page), and a separate one solely for WotF. Here's the template I used, both in a Google Docs version and Word version:

I believe it follows most the rules, except with font Courier Prime (insisted by Rob Sawyer as superior to Courier New (which I used on my actual submissions)) instead of Times New Roman. And if it breaks other rules; it still definitely didn't get me rejected 😉

But don't use this in lieu of reading TJ's notes; they're much more thorough, while still being concise and easy to digest.

It is a bit of a shock that formatting isn't on RWC.

Especially of it's so ladida important.

Problems there would likely be spotted before reading even begins.

No tabs, bad font/size, font colour/s, for example.

Either it's not much of an issue across entries, it's not much of an issue when it does occur, they don't care at all, or they care so much it's an instant reject or disqualification.

Any guesses.

Go on, dare ya.

I'm not guessing, I'll eliminate logically.

Not DS, as there should be clear rules for it if it were, and we wouldn't have this topic.

I would think there is a lot of formatting issues across entries, as this topic exists, and there are no definitive rules on it, to my knowledge.

As it's not on RWC, I can only suggest it's not a huge issue, unless it completely ruins the story or reading experience in some way.

As far as proper formatting for the contest, and this may be in the above?, but why not simply get a bunch of winners and tally their common formatting choices that won.

Sounds logical.

My straight rejections have always included regrets that my entry "did not place," but never the word disqualified, so I don't know if Joni has a different way of approaching disqualifications. When entering, one must always tic the box asking if the entrant has read and followed all contest rules. If one has not, a DQ is a rejection.

Contest formatting - what little there is - is covered by rule 6.

WotF Contest Rule 6. a) "Entries submitted electronically must be double-spaced and must include the title of the work and page number on each page, but do not include the author’s name. ... If the author’s name and/or any contact information is included on the story manuscript, it will be disqualified."

From rule 6. b), "...submitted in hard copy form... ...black ink on white paper...", it can be inferred that font colors other than black will be disqualified.

Exactly. Anyone who is trying to be a serious writer will learn and understand basic standard manuscript formatting. It’s not hard at all. Just something you get used to. 

@nova if you have an RWC letter without the note about formatting, I'd like to see it (I mean that, perhaps there's a mistake in the letter). I asked a friend to send me his RWC letter and found this:

Formatting Fails: A typographical error or a grammar slip won't bother us. Endless misspellings and incomprehensible grammar will make us stop reading. Don't format your manuscript in a clever way so as to attract attention. Your prose should stand alone. If it's not a black serif typeface, double-spaced, on a white background, without illustrations or fancy capitals, then change it. (And not double-double spaced, please. Check the small box in your paragraph menu.) Twelve-point type, preferably Courier, Times New Roman, or something similar, is best.

Hence the reason for my taking the time to create the PDF for this thread. If I can help someone overcome an RWC because they reviewed my document and changed their formatting, then I'm happy, even if I never know about it. 

Posted by: @tj_knight

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Formatting Fails

Thanks.

I was looking as someone's post over on my RWC topic, they had them listed, but they seemed to have neglected to show that one.

I don't feel I have an issue here, but should probably check, just in case.

RT would have been grilling me over flames if she had seen formatting issues with my stories, and was quite helpful with anything she spotted.

I think my issue lies elsewhere, and as it predates my enlightenment, I may suspect it was my lack of knowledge of the algorithm at the time.

Hopefully I'll get a RWC this judging, and it may at least narrow it down.

Posted by: @kent

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My straight rejections have always included regrets that my entry "did not place," but never the word disqualified, so I don't know if Joni has a different way of approaching disqualifications. When entering, one must always tic the box asking if the entrant has read and followed all contest rules. If one has not, a DQ is a rejection.

Contest formatting - what little there is - is covered by rule 6.

WotF Contest Rule 6. a) "Entries submitted electronically must be double-spaced and must include the title of the work and page number on each page, but do not include the author’s name. ... If the author’s name and/or any contact information is included on the story manuscript, it will be disqualified."

From rule 6. b), "...submitted in hard copy form... ...black ink on white paper...", it can be inferred that font colors other than black will be disqualified.

@Kent , a DQ comes from a short list of "offenses". The most common I've seen here over the years is when an author mistakenly uploads a version of their story that has their name/contact info on it. That's a legit mistake and can happen to anyone, especially folks who submit frequently to other markets. 

Next is if you submit in a language other than English. 

Over 17k words.

Poetry (AKA, not speculative fiction prose)

Also, if you submit something that isn't speculative fiction. A college essay, a shopping list (both of which Kary has said she's seen). 

Regarding 6b. I find that interesting. I stopped submitting hard copies a decade ago, so I'd skipped over that. Reading it, I can only surmise that they receive entries on bar napkins, or torn pages from notebooks in pink ink. Those appear to be disqualifying actions. Though sending an electronic submission .jpg of a story on a bar napkin does not. I'll see if I can get a reply on that and report back.