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Sherri Morris
(@abeona)
Posts: 61
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Topic starter
 

I have my Q2 story structure mostly complete.  It's still evolving.  In my mind's eye, the entire structure has been created using the third person limited POV.  But, I've been seriously considering switching to first person.  In retrospect, I think it will be much stronger given my story's theme. 

However, there is an ancillary need to jump away from the first person to the 3rd person in multiple distant settings with anonymous characters, in a single montage of 300-400 words, or it could be broken up into 3 individual breaks of 100 words rather than a montage, depicting a global condition.  Think, describing an emerging viral outbreak, for example.  I might get by with a single montage, but I do need at least one.  This would all happen in the first act.

Is it absolutely verboten to switch POV?  Is it a bad idea, wrt WotF or magazine submissions?  I was considering short section breaks with "#####" and/or italicising the 3rd person, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to have 1-2 pages all italicized.  Switching with something like, "Meanwhile, 500 miles away, a stranger walks into a convenience store..." is a possibility, but feels a little cliche and sounds a bit like a Batman graphic novel which doesn't really fit with my theme.

I'm conflicted.  On one hand, the first person makes a more compelling story.   On the other hand, it comes at the expense of limiting my ability to convey the complexity of global events.  I can use radio news reports inform the reader to some extent, but I would still need at least one montage.  Too much of that would translate to an infodump.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

 
Posted : January 2, 2024 6:57 am
Todd Jones reacted
(@martin-l-shoemaker)
Posts: 2183
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Nothing is verboten save for doing it poorly. I like the scene breaks and italics, but maybe not if the sections are long. Can you break them up?

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Posted : January 2, 2024 7:04 am
Todd Jones
(@toddjones)
Posts: 687
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Posted by: @abeona

Is it absolutely verboten to switch POV?

I've been told from many many people, yes it is forbidden. My opinion is no it's not. Make a rule and there are always ways to break it successfully. The only two spots I can see this working is at the very end of a story and to a lesser extent at the beginning.

shrug  

I'm still a "no" when it comes to switching POVs in the middle/throughout the story. Not that someone more skilled than me couldn't pull it off, but I don't know how.

In regards section breaks, maybe just a "#" with a "Meanwhile, 500 miles away, ..."

Does give the reader grounding in the story so they aren't lost.

shrug shrug

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Posted : January 2, 2024 7:06 am
(@morgan-broadhead)
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Confusing the reader is always verboten. Clarity is king. There are equally as many ways of doing it right as there are of doing it wrong. However you do it, just make sure it's clear to the reader. Separating your change in POV/montage via a section break should work just fine.

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Posted : January 2, 2024 9:29 am
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
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I agree! If it works, it works! The danger in switching POV is confusing the reader or losing the emotional or narrative thread of your piece. It also depends on length, like Martin said. In a short short piece (I read a lot of flash) I think it's very difficult to make it work, but nothing is "against the rules". There are no rules Smile Just what works.

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Posted : January 3, 2024 4:39 am
Sherri Morris
(@abeona)
Posts: 61
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Topic starter
 

@rschibler Therein lies the rub.  Whether it "works" or not is subjective.  I, as the reader writing it, have a bias and could end up being the only one who thinks so.  I can never tell.  Sometimes seem like pure genius, but fall flat when read by others.  I'm still learning.

 
Posted : January 3, 2024 7:12 am
RETreasure reacted
(@morgan-broadhead)
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Posted by: @abeona

@rschibler Therein lies the rub.  Whether it "works" or not is subjective.  I, as the reader writing it, have a bias and could end up being the only one who thinks so.  I can never tell.  Sometimes seem like pure genius, but fall flat when read by others.  I'm still learning.

You may have just resolved your conundrum about whether it works or not! "... but fall flat when read by others." That's the real key right there, letting others read your story and give you feedback about whether or not it works.

 

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Posted : January 3, 2024 12:12 pm
(@reigheena)
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Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker

Nothing is verboten save for doing it poorly. I like the scene breaks and italics, but maybe not if the sections are long. Can you break them up?

This. I actually think italics would work against you, especially if the section is longer than a couple of paragraphs. I'm sure that there are stories out there that have done a 1st person to 3rd person switch. Just be aware that it can be jarring, more so than a 3rd to 3rd switch, and that switching POV at all in a short fiction is difficult because you don't have as much room to set up the new POV. 

 

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Posted : January 3, 2024 12:12 pm
RETreasure
(@rschibler)
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Posted by: @abeona

@rschibler Therein lies the rub.  Whether it "works" or not is subjective.  I, as the reader writing it, have a bias and could end up being the only one who thinks so.  I can never tell.  Sometimes seem like pure genius, but fall flat when read by others.  I'm still learning.

 

No that's a totally fair concern. To a certain extent that's always going to be an issue, but I've found that by a) having trusted critique partners and b) reading as much short fiction as I can, I've developed an "ear" for pacing, structure, characters, etc, that are 'working'. And at the end of the day, while this is a business and we want to find readers, if we're not pleasing ourselves, what is the point? So trust your own instincts, too.

 

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Posted : January 3, 2024 12:38 pm
Sherri Morris
(@abeona)
Posts: 61
Bronze Star Member
Topic starter
 

@reigheena I agree with you and Martin.  I now have my first 350 words pretty much established and second drafted.  I opted for opening with a third person limited present tense of my MC being interrogated.  So, the rest of the story will mostly be told by the MC which will have the feel of first person, passed tense.  It kind of solves the problem with switching from first to third.  And if I want to redirect to an anonymous distant scene, it won't be so jarring.  I find it fascinating how stories seem to write themselves.  This little change I just described allowed me to not only break up the montage, but it now maybe only a single event of 100 words.  The rest can be interspersed in the conversation between the interrogator and interrogatee.  I just couldn't see it before. I wonder if getting an acceptance letter can even match the feeling when the story emerges like that Smile

 

 
Posted : January 3, 2024 2:04 pm
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