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Getting an Agent's Attention

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OwenTyme
(@owentyme)
Posts: 16
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Topic starter
 

For the past year and a half, I've been occasionally submitting query letters to literary agents, but that process feels like an incomprehensible black box, simply because they give no feedback.  So, what does it take to catch the attention of an agent?

So far, I believe I've gone through this process four times.

The first time, I got some pretty quick rejections, so I went back and looked real hard at my query letter and then re-read all the articles I'd read about query letters, realizing I'd made some rookie mistakes.  I'm sure everyone does that, right?  My second round of letters mostly didn't even get a response, so I don't know what conclusions to draw, there.

The second book I tried querying for, I mostly didn't hear a thing back, with just a small handful of rejection responses.

My third attempt was a re-write of the first book I queried for, but again, I got some fairly quick responses.  I looked long and hard at the flaws of this piece and learned what I could from it, starting a fresh novel with a much clearer idea of who my audience is.

My current attempt is for the resulting novel and the results have been more encouraging to me, because I'm getting rejection responses from most of the agents, this time, and they're taking their sweet time to reply (about a month or two, on average), with the exception of a single agent that sent a rejection after only three days (to me, that's insultingly fast and implies they didn't even look at my material, but it was to the head of an agency, so they probably get more submissions than you could shake a stick at).

The rejection e-mails have also been slightly longer, looking hand-typed, rather than being cut-and-paste messages; it's as if they don't have time for feedback, but want to encourage me to try again, which is nice of them.  I've got high hopes one of the last agents I submitted to will at least request the manuscript, because the novel more or less hits the nail on the head for several items on her wish list, but it's no sure thing.

The only conclusions I can infer from these interactions is that lots of quick rejections indicate some obvious issue.  Hearing nothing may be slightly better than that, but who knows.  Eventually getting a rejection weeks/months down the road sounds to me like they actually took the time to seriously consider my work, which is very encouraging to me.

However, to repeat my question, what does it take to catch the attention of an agent?  I feel like I'm almost, but not quite there.

Released novels, available for purchase: Troll Song and Forgotten Legends. More books are on the way, waiting only for cover art.

 
Posted : June 22, 2023 3:16 am
Dustin Adams reacted
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Gideon Smith
(@gideonpsmith)
Posts: 328
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Meh. I don't have any answers to this, as I, and probably most here, have failed to do this exact thing.

 

I have done a number of different things that have made the experience more personal however, including attending in person and online conferences where agents have been, doing pitch sessions, etc. The in person is financially and time intensive and I would not have done had I not been in the city anyway, but they were the most beneficial in terms of actually making a connection or having a serious conversation. I'm still not agented after 4 distinct novels however so clearly what I have done has not pushed it over the limit.

 

Talking to agents the thing most say is its not science. Its more gut. In the same way you pick up a book at the bookstore and within a minute decide whether you're buying it or putting it back on the shelf. Most say its about the writing, less about the query. 

 

I have also had agents reject in hours, and some wait 9 months to reject. I don't think the latter took it more seriously, I tend to think they just had a larger pile on their desk and took their time to get to it. In much the same way for short fiction I don't think Clarkesworld magazine that rejects in 3-4 days takes less consideration than Analog which takes 120 days. Analog probably took the same time, its just they only spent the same 5 minutes on it Clarkesworld did 120 days after they got it. I'm not saying that to discourage you. Just to say, there's a lot of angst and wasted energy spent trying to read the tea leaves on what wait times, turn around times, etc etc mean. They could mean any number of things. Don't torture yourself over it. But getting personalized feedback as part of pitch sessions, working with a mentor more advanced (there are a number of mentorship programs), or even "ask an agent" events can be helpful.

 

good luck, from someone also in the trenches ? 

"...your motivations for wanting to write are probably complex. You may have a few great passions, you may want to be rich and famous, and you may need therapy."
- Dave Farland, Million Dollar Outlines

Writers of the Future:
2024 Q1: F Q2: HM Q3:SHM Q4: P
2023 Q1: RWC Q2: SHM Q3: SHM Q4: R
2022 Q4: R
Submissions to other markets:
2024: 40 submitted 7 acceptances
2023: 74 submitted 13 acceptances
2022: 22 submitted 1 acceptance

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Posted : June 22, 2023 5:10 am
Dustin Adams, Pegeen, MountainSpud and 1 people reacted
OwenTyme
(@owentyme)
Posts: 16
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Well, I finally had a realization: I've spent enough of my time spinning my wheels in the mud with agents and I've got material that I have high confidence in, so I went ahead and self-published one of my novels via Draft2Digital.  I may still try querying agents with new material, especially should I start a new series, but for now, I'll earn what I can and should I have a measure of success, it might be something to shove in an agent's face to get them to pay attention.

Anyway, my first published novel is Troll Song, the first part of which got me an honorable mention in Writers of the Future.  Feel free to follow the link and help a new indie author out by buying a copy (and if you do, please, please, I'm begging you, write a review).  I've got four more books lined up and ready to go, in that series alone, all just waiting for cover art, so in the coming months, you will see more, just as fast as my friend, the artist, can move.  Troll Song is currently available as an eBook from a variety of online stores, but in the near future it should also be available in print.

And yes, I believe this disqualifies me for future quarters of the contest, but I'm sick of writing short stories, anyway.  I'm long-past due for the next chapter of my journey as an author.  At the very least, the contest gave me a new measure of confidence in my writing, through a handful of honorable mentions.

Good luck to the rest of you in all your writing endeavors!  I'll drop by to let you good folks know when you can pick up the print edition of Troll Song.

Edit:I should have included the cover art earlier.

Cover Thumbnail   1 Troll Song

Released novels, available for purchase: Troll Song and Forgotten Legends. More books are on the way, waiting only for cover art.

 
Posted : October 17, 2023 1:18 pm
(@morgan-broadhead)
Posts: 467
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I would imagine — and I'm just spit-balling here, because I haven't published anything myself ... yet — the things that would get an agent's attention would be:
1) some professional publication history included in the submission letter (ie. stories you've published that pay pro rates)
2) a fresh story told in a unique voice that grips them from the beginning and doesn't let go

True, even with both these boxes checked, many agents will likely still reject you. But probably you'd also get at least a few nibbles asking for more information.

Also, self-publishing a novel doesn't automatically disqualify you from the contest. The rules state that your novel has to be professionally published, which is defined as payment of at least eight cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits.

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Posted : October 18, 2023 4:29 am
K. R. Queen
(@krqueen_writes)
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At what level of WotF accolades does it help give you a leg up with agents? HM, SHM . . . Winner? When do they begin to care? 

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Posted : November 11, 2023 5:58 pm
OwenTyme
(@owentyme)
Posts: 16
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Topic starter
 

Posted by: @krqueen_writes

At what level of WotF accolades does it help give you a leg up with agents? HM, SHM . . . Winner? When do they begin to care? 

I've had a number of HMs and a couple SHMs.  I also hit the quarter-finals once, quite a few years back (one agonizingly small step away from prize money).  Didn't do me one bit of good with agents.  I suspect it's winner or nothing, as far as they're concerned.

 

Released novels, available for purchase: Troll Song and Forgotten Legends. More books are on the way, waiting only for cover art.

 
Posted : November 11, 2023 6:24 pm
Gideon Smith
(@gideonpsmith)
Posts: 328
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@owentyme @krqueen_writes Like most things in publishing, it depends on the individual. I have spoken to agents multiple times about 'what makes the difference' in that query letter. The most extreme answer was "nothing", that the query letter just had to be professional and properly organized, be in a genre they represented and have a hook. If it met that criteria they would request pages, and from there it was all on the writing in front of them. That they didn't care in either decision about competitions or your writing history, whether this was your first book, you were indie published, or you had had things in Clarkesworld. That agents opinion was that short fiction was a different skill set from novels and readership rarely transferred much this early in your career. It was all irrelevant. That agent, who was an experienced agent, said they didn't even know what an SHM was.

The other extreme was an agent who was also a writer and had themselves entered WOTF and said they wanted to know everything, as it portrayed breadth and depth of effort, and getting anything from WOTF or Clarkesworld, meant you might be able to appeal to those audiences as a writer.

I've also got every style of advice in between.

So I don't know the answer, I don't even know if 'winning' means anything to every agent. So I would say put in your best achievements. They can ignore it if they don't think its relevant. But do choose wisely as the only piece of advice that was absolutely consistent was that sending an overlong query letter (like this answer..?) is universally bad. So if you have that aforementioned Clarkesworld publication, I would put that, but not the HM or SHM from WOTF. I, personally, would consider putting it down if I got to finalist. That's pretty clearly something. While I think SHM is good too, I'm not sure every agent out there will really understand what it means. But with an n=9 agents only I could very well be wrong Smile

 

ps there's nothing specific about Clarkesworld. I don't remember the exact wording, we were talking generally about the top rated SFF magazines. 

"...your motivations for wanting to write are probably complex. You may have a few great passions, you may want to be rich and famous, and you may need therapy."
- Dave Farland, Million Dollar Outlines

Writers of the Future:
2024 Q1: F Q2: HM Q3:SHM Q4: P
2023 Q1: RWC Q2: SHM Q3: SHM Q4: R
2022 Q4: R
Submissions to other markets:
2024: 40 submitted 7 acceptances
2023: 74 submitted 13 acceptances
2022: 22 submitted 1 acceptance

http://www.gideonpsmith.com

 
Posted : November 12, 2023 5:40 am
(@morgan-broadhead)
Posts: 467
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Posted by: @krqueen_writes

At what level of WotF accolades does it help give you a leg up with agents? HM, SHM . . . Winner? When do they begin to care? 

I can only imagine that, from a professional publishing point of view, anything that’s not published doesn’t qualify as a credit. If you’re a winner or published finalist, that certainly counts. Everything below that is still technically a rejection and not something I would include as credits for agents or editors. 

 

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Posted : November 12, 2023 1:05 pm
(@martin-l-shoemaker)
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Use caution. The late Mike Resnick advised us: "You need a good agent. Any agent you can get at this stage of your career isn't a good agent."

Although Bad Agent Sydney is satire, the stories are based on real incidents and behavior. It's worth reading. There are plenty of bad agents. In one infamous case, an agent followed the venture capital philosophy: sign up a lot of long shots in hopes that one out of ten will earn money. He bragged about how many authors he represented, but he did next to nothing for most of them. He also eventually withdrew from the agent association (I forget the name) just before they could eject him for numerous offenses, including "representing" authors who had no agreement with him. He would pressure authors into accepting lowball offers because it made sales easier for him.

A WotF win won't get you an agent. A WotF judge might get you an agent if they like you enough to introduce you to theirs, but don't count on it. I've seen the introductions, but I've yet to see a deal from them.

Here's how my agent search went...

  • I sold to Analog. No agents interested.
  • I won WotF. No agents interested.
  • I sold more to Analog. No agents interested.
  • I had a Year's Best story in two collections (originally in Analog). No agents interested.
  • I sold to Clarkesworld. No agents interested.
  • That Clarkesworld story became another Year's Best story in four collections. No agents interested.
  • That Clarkesworld story received a Nebula nomination. Two agents emailed me that very morning. (For reasons, I turned them down. It wasn't an easy choice, but definitely the right choice.
  • A friend mentioned he was submitting to Andy Weir's agent. I asked if he would mind if I submitted to the same guy. (I write a lot of stuff in the same vein.) This was courtesy. He agreed.
  • Weir's agent and I discussed ideas, including me turning my Nebula nominee into a novel. He was excited by that.
  • I wrote and revised the novel.
  • We signed a deal.
  • He took the novel to a New York book fair. Nine publishers asked for full manuscripts.
  • Baen asked for the rights.
  • He negotiated a slightly better contract.
  • He has since negotiated some very good deals.
  • I'm still not rich.

Go ahead and query agents, but also research them. And keep writing.

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Posted : November 12, 2023 1:30 pm
(@morgan-broadhead)
Posts: 467
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I would also add that, until you have a body of work ready for publication, there’s no need to even look for an agent. Agents represent your work to potential publishers. No agent needed if you have nothing ready to publish. 

"You can either sit here and write, or you can sit here and do nothing. But you can’t sit here and do anything else."
— Neil Gaiman, Masterclass

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Posted : November 12, 2023 2:04 pm
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Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker

  • I'm still not rich.

 

giggle I don't know how many writers are 'rich' or even making a living from their words these days, but it isn't many.

 

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Posted : November 15, 2023 10:04 pm
(@morgan-broadhead)
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Posted by: @rschibler

Posted by: @martin-l-shoemaker

  • I'm still not rich.

 

giggle I don't know how many writers are 'rich' or even making a living from their words these days, but it isn't many.

 

Yeah. With the markets literally saturated with stories, it's definitely no longer the good old days. Maybe it never was. I dunno. I just read a biography about Edgar Allen Poe, and that dude was poor until the day he died. His work didn't really take off until long after he was gone.

 

"You can either sit here and write, or you can sit here and do nothing. But you can’t sit here and do anything else."
— Neil Gaiman, Masterclass

Drop me a line at https://morganbroadhead.com
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Posted : November 16, 2023 5:15 am
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