Cliches that should be put to bed...

"Whaddaya mean?" or any form of it

That's got to be the next worst thing to an info dump.  It bothers me as much as, "As you know, Bob..."

"I heard someone screaming. Then I realized it was me."

Lips as a thin line. Ugh! Just listened to a brilliant book and this was in there, word for word, three times. It makes bile rise up in my throat for sure.

I took a class/session with Margie Lawson many years ago where we had to squash our cliches. This is why, I figure, I use so many similes, because we had to rewrite cliches as creatively as we could, with no word limit. So for me, it allowed my thoughts to wander and really write around the thin lines of cliches.

I am proud to say I have used all of these in my writing ? ? 

Maybe I should just post one of my stories here as a lesson in "what not to do..."

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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I am proud to say I have used all of these in my writing ? ? 

Maybe I should just post one of my stories here as a lesson in "what not to do..."

He put his pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else.

Sometimes I put both legs on at the same time. Just to be persnickety. 

@storysinger

I usually have to do that hopping thing to keep from falling over. 

@morgan-broadhead I usually give in to gravity and put them on lying down.

You're all authors.  Who are you kidding?  Who's wearing pants?

@abeona I started a petition at work for us to not have to wear pants anymore, but so far they’re not budging. Stupid HR.

They felt the blood drain from their face.

"bit the inside of his cheek until he tasted blood"

Has anyone actually done this? BTW the above is a direct copy-paste from a Nebula nominee I was just reading  

I knew using cliches was okay 😉 

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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"bit the inside of his cheek until he tasted blood"

 

Has anyone actually done this?

Not intentionally.

I can't think of any others off the top of my head, I guess because clichés generally are forgettable?

Perhaps those where it seems easy to come up with something more original like "it was as black as night."

Clichés feel almost necessary sometimes - like there are only so many ways you can describe fear? So if the "heart races" here and there, so be it. I try my best to avoid them in the openings of my stories and to not use them often.

I completely agree with your points on cliches in storytelling.

I think somewhere cliches are necessary in storytelling to keep readers engaged and surprised.

"When he woke up" during the "dark and stormy night," he realized that he was "not in Kansas anymore."

I once wrote a short in which giant space aliens took Kansas away as a pool table. It didn't sell because Kansans would never allow anything exciting to happen to their state, so the editor couldn't suspend disbelief.

Posted by: @gideonpsmith

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"bit the inside of his cheek until he tasted blood"

Came here to say this 🤣 You see it a lot in fantasy romance for some reason.  Heroines just chewing themselves apart left and right.  Drives me crazy. 

The ultimate one.

The mighty algorithm.

Long may we toil in it's shadow.

I swear it's alive, always changing, always the same.

I feel I need to take up smoking, and living in the dark, wandering the crowed streets at night.

Disliking my posts.

@bootzenkatzen one of my friends did a great job of taking this trope and spinning it on its head: he had a character whose faith revolved around self-punishment, so he was constantly biting and chewing his own mouth, so much so that his lips were a mass of scar tissue and blood constantly dribbled from his mouth. It made him very memorable (I read this story ~15 years ago) and made any occasion of him shouting (with the inherent spittle) extra traumatic, in a good way. 

Regarding cliches, I'm blind to most of them. Very few offend me, but the egregious ones are those that are impossible in that world/setting. For example, I just read a romantasy set in a pre-Industrial era, and one of the characters said "that's not a bug, that's a feature." - a huge cliche that originated from software development, probably first said in the 00s, MAYBE the 90s.

I also don't want a character from a different universe (specifically, one without a country called Greece) to say "that's all Greek to me."

I feel strong female leads may be becoming cliche.

If they aren't already?

I think it jumped the shark with Jennifer Lawrence suggesting she was the first!?

Then the internet hit back listing, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, so on.

All great characters, but also all just a swap of a strong leading man.

In cinema particularly, but also in books? The two are now about equally used.

So, what's the alternative?

Kids spring to mind, but then you loose some reality and it's hard to do the same type of stories.

Home Alone, springs to mind as a top notch example, but hardly an action piece.

Harry Potter is an obvious one.

But, then that's getting a bit repetitive now, with a lot of kid action stories.

Animals? Robots? Aliens?

Then it really is hard to relate.

Are female action leads weaker than the men?

Ripley was written as a man, or at least not as a women.

This is laughable when you get into the films algorithm.

A man? In Alien?

Sarah Connor was written as a female, particularly in T2, as the character was well established.

T1 Sarah does not match Reese, in fact he has to get injured for her to take over.

T2 Sarah is a hard bottom, trained, tonned and out for revenge. But she crawls before the leading man by the elevator.

I think the audience suspects she can hold her own around actual men, like the guy in the desert, or miles.

Katniss Everdeen is hot.

Got the books, haven't read them.

I think she is another kid hero? Just.

Well the actress was adult.., in the last film?

Oh, never mind.

PS

Got a comment to go with that dislike buddy?

It's easy to hide behind the dislike button, harder to actually formulate an intelligent reply.

Lurk in the shadows, walk into a doorframe.

Oh, and broke 40 dislikes, party at my place.

PPS

And another one.

They can't get me to leave, they can't get others to do their dirty work for them, so now the only thing they can do is hide behind a dislike button that doesn't even tell the public which post, or why.

Completely 0 context.

Though I guess that is appropriate, considering their 0 reason and the 0 effort they are putting into it.

I had thought writers were supposed to... write?

Anyway.

Big 5-0, here we come!

Posted by: @Anonymous

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I feel strong female leads may be becoming cliche.

If they aren't already?

I think it jumped the shark with Jennifer Lawrence suggesting she was the first!?

Then the internet hit back listing, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, so on.

All great characters, but also all just a swap of a strong leading man.

I think you're missing the point of a strong female lead. Saying they're "just a swap of a strong leading man" is a kind of derogatory way of putting it.  Yes, a man could have also played that role, but the point is that it is a woman, holding her own, being on equal footing with any male character.  We want to see women in the media being portrayed as real human beings who can handle their sh*t on their own, instead of just a character for a man to rescue. Many of us are real, real tired of seeing damsels in distress. That's the trope that's been overused to death in my opinion.  

The bar is so, so low for women in the media right now. Like, we're happy if a female character doesn't spend the whole movie talking about men or relationships (like in the Bechdel Test). I loved Katniss as a character, because she essentially took over her father's role as hunter and provider. She's strong and capable, and doesn't really give two sh*ts about relationships. She cares about her family, for sure, and eventually comes around to being in a relationship with Peeta, but only after she's taken care of everything else, and it's not the main focus of the plot. It's a side story. 

I think this is probably why you got the dislikes, because whether you intended it or not, it feels like you're looking down on female characters, and saying they're not worthy of being heroes, and not worth reading about, or seeing in other media. You may be sick of it, but honestly, you're not really the target audience for a strong female lead. It's also still pretty rare to see a strong female character, and most of us still really want to see more representation of women who can do other things than just be in a relationship. We're real sick of being the body in the refrigerator that motivates the hero, we want to be our own heroes instead. 

@nova 

You've been given many reasons, many times — including detailed examples — for why people don't like your posts and why you've been reported to the moderators. You're not actually interested in listening, so no additional explanations will be given. If you posted more helpful, coherent, and productive comments in the forums, I suspect you'd start getting more likes. But so long as you continue being combative, offensive, argumentative, and incoherent, you shouldn't really expect anything to change any time soon in your favor.

Posted by: @bootzenkatzen

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looking down on female characters, and saying they're not worthy of being heroes,

That's one way if looking at it.

The other is looking up at female characters and saying they have more important roles than being the hero.

Look at Q in Bond.

He's not out there taking out the bad guys, but Bond couldn't do it with out him.

Just like Tony Stark and Pepper Potts.

Posted by: @bootzenkatzen

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more representation of women who can do other things than just be in a relationship.

But that's more the exception to the rule.

I get that, as a story should be the most important bit in the characters life.

Ripley was grinding 9-5 under Dallas, then Alien happened.

Afterwards she likely went back to that, ignoring later sequels.

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

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why people don't like your posts and why you've been reported to the moderators.

I am very well aware of why, thanks very much.

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

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I suspect you'd start getting more likes.

This is not a popularity contest.

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

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you shouldn't really expect anything to change any time soon in your favor.

That's funny, I thought it already had.

Thankyou Bootzen for staying on topic.

Constructive responses are haaaard!

But you nailed it.

I hope your a woman, because there's our hero of the piece, right there.

@bootzenkatzen There's a reason we weren't responding to Harvey's post saying strong women are a cliche. If you want evidence that he's just trying to stir up trouble, look no further than the fact that on the thread about favorite character tropes, he says:

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Posted by: @reigheena

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I will always have a soft spot for girls with swords.

Ditto.

Posted by: @reigheena

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watching them dominate battlefields.

We have a shared interest.

Quite a turnaround, isn't it? Anyway, you're 100% right, BootzenKatzen. Fridging is a cliche that can die in a fire. 

Posted by: @reigheena

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If you want evidence that he's just trying to stir up trouble,

Again!?

You keep doing exactly what you accuse me of doing while doing it!

There's your cliche!

Struth!

Posted by: @reigheena

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on the thread about favorite character tropes, he says:

I agreed with you!

And that's not even good enough!

I'm running out of explanation marks!

So, that's now 2 people coming here to comment, completely off topic, targeting me, trying to seed dissent, with one of the few people actually doing the right thing.

Ladies and gentlemen, have we found our villan?

PS

"Fridging is a cliche that can die in a fire."

As Indy did, when he got in a fridge amid a nuclear fire.

Perhaps it does take a man after all?

PPS

Posted : January 12, 2026 1:52 am

Under Benifits of RWC topic, contest board.

Bad habits...

Something else I've been thinking about that's somewhat related to this topic: reading a story set in the far future that has references to current popular culture, especially music and movies. Think about it, what's the oldest song you can think of that's actually still relevant to some audiences today? Elvis? Maybe the Beatles? "Classic" Rock from the 70's and 80'? Even if we go back to Elvis or Frank Sinatra, we're still talking about music that is only @ 60-80 years old.

Nothing throws me out of a story more than reading about someone living 400 years in the future remembering this one popular song back on Earth called "Great Balls of Fire." Sorry. No. Uh uh. Does anyone here remember any song that's older than 300 years? Songs just aren't gonna stick around in the general population more than fifty or sixty years. Same with movies.

One solution for this is to create what I call "future past." We need to create a past that would still be relevant to the people living in that time period. Want your character to remember an "old" song, actor, musical artist, or film? Make it up! If your story is set in 2347, who would be a popular band or artist from, say, 2280? Make it up! Create one or two verses of your own song lyrics, something that would make sense or add depth to the current story situation and be meaningful to your character. Plus, this has the added benefit of avoiding any nasty copyright infringements or asking permission to use someone else's intellectual property.

Happy creating!

Posted by: @morgan-broadhead

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Does anyone here remember any song that's older than 300 years? Songs just aren't gonna stick around in the general population more than fifty or sixty years.

I am inclined to disagree... But I may be the odd one out on this, since I grew up listening to older music. I was constantly out of the loop on the "greatest hits" of the moment. My mom loved "oldies" and so did I. I still do. Classical music (classical era is ~1730-1820) is close to 300 years old and still very much alive and well. And still influences music today.  There's also plenty of celtic/medival music that you can hear variations of at ren faires, so still alive and well.

Even if it's not exactly Jerry Lee Lewis's rendition of "Great Balls of Fire," I suspect a version of it could still be around in a future setting. I've seen a whole lot of memes where gen alpha plays a song, then millennials play the song it was remixed from, and them boomers come in and play the song THAT was remixed from.  Straight up covers of older music happen all the time too.

So I think you could have a character that's an oddball that thinks they're an "old soul" and likes 300 year old music, or they could be listening to "Zorthrip and the Hyperdrives" cover of "Great Balls of Fire"

@morgan-broadhead Good point/s.

I agree, and believe that referencing current music and culture before it has been time-tested feels contrived. A number of good works have referenced classic literature, poetry, stage, and mythology. Pop culture works such as Star Trek have often referenced Shakespeare.

One example of creating a referenced work, though not in the future, is the musical/film How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. The title is the intertextual use of the title of a fictional book that the MC uses to rise in the business hierarchy.

Fun stuff

Edit: What's wrong with my Sci-fi brain? Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a work that intertextually references a fictional work.